General Election - 4th July 2024

[blueparrot]

That's still based on your own standards though, isn't it?

Not really, you could be somebody, quite aligned to say the Greens, and in a seat were labour are pushing the Coneservative, so while you may not agree with Labour environmentally you vote for them to get rid of the Conservative.Under another system you would vote Green.

 

[bluenova]

Not really, you could be somebody, quite aligned to say the Greens, and in a seat were labour are pushing the Coneservative, so while you may not agree with Labour environmentally you vote for them to get rid of the Conservative.Under another system you would vote Green.

Yes, but you're voting Labour because your own standards are more aligned to them than the Tories.

 

[hilts]

Surely the biggest problem with your theory is that the more people actually agree with you, the less it makes sense?

How wide would you expect it to spread:-) thats part of the reason its not a theory just the simple truth. Its a small section of a football forum with posters from diffrent places.

Its not even a debate but people for some unkown reason cant accept it. I mean i asked @BobKowalski a very straightforward question but hes not daft and knew the answer and has ran for the hills.

People are odd they cant accept the obvious sometimes and almost never admit to being wrong. If he came back with a truthful example of how his vote affected a general election then i would happily admit i was wrong. We are strangers on a football forum who gives a fuck if they get something wrong.


Men and their egos.

 

[bluenova]

How wide would you expect it to spread:-) thats part of the reason its not a theory just the simple truth. Its a small section of a football forum with posters from diffrent places.

Its not even a debate but people for some unkown reason cant accept it. I mean i asked @BobKowalski a very straightforward question but hes not daft and knew the answer and has ran for the hills.

People are odd they cant accept the obvious sometimes and almost never admit to being wrong. If he came back with a truthful example of how his vote affected a general election then i would happily admit i was wrong. We are strangers on a football forum who gives a fuck if they get something wrong.


Men and their egos.

It's essentially a philosophical argument about democracy - not something that is absolutely right or wrong.

Clearly very few general elections are decided by a single vote, so most people's single vote doesn't change the result. No-one will really disagree with you about that.

But also, who people vote for in a democracy does have consequences, and the only people voting in a democracy are individuals. Therefore it's also true that individual votes affect the outcome of a general election.

I assume both yourself and @BobKowalski would agree on both those points.

I'm not suggesting that your influence on a sub-forum of Bluemoon, will encourage enough people to change the way they individually vote, that it makes a difference in a general election. I don't think anyone would. I'm suggesting you are not the only person in the world who thinks this way.

It's not an uncommon argument, and I think we see the result in many elections. Thousands of people vote for a party that they don't think has any chance of winning, even if it means that their least preferred option gets in. In every election their will be cases where those votes make a difference to the result.

That's why I argued that the more people who agree with you, the more likely their votes will impact an election. I am not suggesting that 'agreeing with you' means literally everyone who thinks this way has to know hilts on the bluemoon forum. I am suggesting that the more people who come to this conclusion, via whatever route, the less it makes sense.

 

[BobKowalski]

Give me an example of when your vote, just yours, had consequences in a general election.

Im not expecting an answer because it is none and you know it.

I would say, 2010. My LibDem vote helped give the LibDems enough seats to enter a coalition Govt with the Tories. Now, looking back, am I proud of this? Well, no. With great power comes great responsibility and I regret to say I did not use that power wisely.

So, are you arguing no votes have consequences, therefore there is no point in voting? If so, why are you taking part in a thread on a matter which for you has no consequence?

In my view, your and my vote is part of a collective. If no individual takes part in voting for that collective then there is no collective. If individuals opt out of the voting process then that collective is diminished. Voting is an expression of the will of society at a precise moment in time. A snapshot into what society is thinking and feeling, be it for good or ill. Each vote has consequence because it forms part of that snapshot in time. Add those snapshots together and you can detect trends, see where the society, of which we are all part, is heading.

I can grumble about the voting system and where I live etc, but I still vote, because my vote is my expression, my contribution to what I think is important. Your belief in the value of nothing is too nihilistic for my tastes.

 

[BobKowalski]

Interesting poll. There has been some debate on the Greens attracting soft Tory voters and establishing themselves in traditional Tory suburbs - especially those who are comfy with LibDems. Not sure this will plan out in July, but it will be interesting to see if there are any Green trends.

 

[bluethrunthru]

HA HA HA HA

 

[blueparrot]

I would say, 2010. My LibDem vote helped give the LibDems enough seats to enter a coalition Govt with the Tories. Now, looking back, am I proud of this? Well, no. With great power comes great responsibility and I regret to say I did not use that power wisely.

So, are you arguing no votes have consequences, therefore there is no point in voting? If so, why are you taking part in a thread on a matter which for you has no consequence?

In my view, your and my vote is part of a collective. If no individual takes part in voting for that collective then there is no collective. If individuals opt out of the voting process then that collective is diminished. Voting is an expression of the will of society at a precise moment in time. A snapshot into what society is thinking and feeling, be it for good or ill. Each vote has consequence because it forms part of that snapshot in time. Add those snapshots together and you can detect trends, see where the society, of which we are all part, is heading.

I can grumble about the voting system and where I live etc, but I still vote, because my vote is my expression, my contribution to what I think is important. Your belief in the value of nothing is too nihilistic for my tastes.

Simply if all those that didn’t vote because it made no difference voted, it would make. a huge difference.

 

[Blue and true]

HA HA HA HA

Is this the Minister for Veterans who defended Sunak skipping D-Day commemorations? "Fucking wanker" is about right.

 

[Here4Politics]

Speaking of hustings in this great democracy: