General Election - December 12th, 2019

[west didsblue]

I agree that trying to draw parallels between 1983 and 2019 is a bit silly but there are reasons why this GE might not necessarily be a pointer to the future. All things being equal, Thatcher might have struggled in 1983 had it not been for the Falklands but I think Foot as Labour leader was too much of a throwback to 1979 and she'd probably have got a majority, albeit smaller.

But in 2024, Brexit shouldn't be an issue (if it is then Boris will be in big trouble) so it will be fought on policy and not on a single issue. Assuming we've done Brexit and there's been a significant economic hit, Labour will pick up votes as politics returns to what passes for normal. Also they won't be led by Corbyn which will help. If the new leader is presentable and credible, and they focus on a few key policies rather than promising everything to everyone, then they will stand a much better chance. Also if we Jimmy Krankie has had her referendum and lost it again, or if it's been made clear she isn't getting one, they could pick up votes in Scotland that they've lost.

Agree with that.

In 1983, the winter of discontent and industrial strife of the late 70s was still fresh in the mind so in spite of the riots of 1981 and the onset of Thatcherism she was still in poll position in 1983 and it was no surprise that a left wing Labour didn’t do well.
2019 should have been very different.

9 years of Tory austerity should have been sufficient for people to want anything but more Tory strife. Sadly Corbyn and his policies were totally the wrong answer. It all goes back to 2010 when the union vote was enough to counter the members and PLP votes to get the wrong Miliband in. His ineffectual opposition led to another Cameron win and his rule change attracting hundreds of thousands of far left members led to Corbyn and the shambles we see today.

There have been too many missed opportunities due to poor decision making by Labour over the last 10 years to make it likely they’re going to get it right next time.

 

[Chris in London]

I agree that trying to draw parallels between 1983 and 2019 is a bit silly but there are reasons why this GE might not necessarily be a pointer to the future. All things being equal, Thatcher might have struggled in 1983 had it not been for the Falklands but I think Foot as Labour leader was too much of a throwback to 1979 and she'd probably have got a majority, albeit smaller.

But in 2024, Brexit shouldn't be an issue (if it is then Boris will be in big trouble) so it will be fought on policy and not on a single issue. Assuming we've done Brexit and there's been a significant economic hit, Labour will pick up votes as politics returns to what passes for normal. Also they won't be led by Corbyn which will help. If the new leader is presentable and credible, and they focus on a few key policies rather than promising everything to everyone, then they will stand a much better chance. Also if we Jimmy Krankie has had her referendum and lost it again, or if it's been made clear she isn't getting one, they could pick up votes in Scotland that they've lost.

The SDP were riding high in the polls in early 1982 and labour was languishing. Thatcher stormed ahead in the summer of 82 and stayed there.

 

[Metal Biker]

You have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

But carry on, if it helps.

On the other hand you could challenge everything that you think you know and believe in and see what you come up with.

That's what smart people do. They constantly challenge what they think they know.

You're repeating the same argument you've had for three tedious years.

When are you going to wake up and accept that few people agree with you?

 

[Ban-jani]

The SDP were riding high in the polls in early 1982 and labour was languishing. Thatcher stormed ahead in the summer of 82 and stayed there.

Thank god, too.

 

[dave_blue12]

You're repeating the same argument you've had for three tedious years.

When are you going to wake up and accept that few people agree with you?

I'm not asking you to agree with me

I'm asking you to think.

FYI I am frequently wrong and re-examine my beliefs on a regular basis. The more intelligent the person, generally the more self doubt.

If you want to grow as a person you should try truly challenging everything you believe.

 

[Metal Biker]

I'm not asking you to agree with me

I'm asking you to think.

FYI I am frequently wrong and re-examine my beliefs on a regular basis. The more intelligent the person, generally the more self doubt.

If you want to grow as a person you should try truly challenging everything you believe.

I have thought. You're refusing to accept my conclusions of those thoughts, nor accept that they don't agree with you. I'm a libertarian, I challenge everything. It's what caused me to challenge the concept of the EU in the first place and came to the conclusion it was no longer wokring for the UK or it's people.

It's not conceivable to you, that someone could possible deliberate the situation, the outcomes and come to a conclusion different to yours.

"they must be wrong" is the only acceptible explanation for you. Have you ever at all, considered the possibility that you might just be wrong or that your position and outlook on life doesn't relate to those whose conclusion differs from yours, or even the radical idea, that those differing conclusions aren't "wrong", it's merely from a different perspective?

No, you haven't, that much is evidently clear. You have your view, I will retain mine and accept we'll never see eye to eye, but take solace that I was not alone in my conclusion.

Or am I talking "shit"?

 

[dave_blue12]

I have thought. You're refusing to accept my conclusions of those thoughts, nor accept that they don't agree with you.

It's not conceivable to you, that someone could possible deliberate the situation, the outcomes and come to a conclusion different to yours.

"they must be wrong" is the only acceptible explanation for you. Have you ever at all, considered the possibility that you might just be wrong or that your position and outlook on life doesn't relate to those whose conclusion differs from yours, or even the radical idea, that those differing conclusions aren't "wrong", merely from a different perspective?

No, you haven't, that much is evidently clear. You have your view, I will retain mine and accept we'll never see eye to eye, but take solace that I was not alone in my conclusion.

Or am I talking "shit"?

Nothing that I have ever seen you post leads me to believe that you have ever truly thought about what is at stake.

But I take your word for it and this exchange is over

 

[Metal Biker]

Nothing that I have ever seen you post leads me to believe that you have ever truly thought about what is at stake.

But I take your word for it and this exchange is over

Challenging the idea of the EU is what led to my decision that it was time to disassociate ourselves from it, in spite of the wholly popular narrative of the EU/remainers, after previously being an advocate of it. Could you do that?

Can you name any negatives about the EU, our membership of it? Or is it all "plain sailing" in your eyes? Where were your red lines about membership?

If you cannot do that, then this exchange (that YOU began, FYI) is indeed over. And i'll not lament that it is.

 

[west didsblue]

Or am I talking "shit"?

Yes

 

[dave_blue12]

Challenging the idea of the EU is what led to my decision that it was time to disassociate ourselves from it, in spite of the wholly popular narrative of the EU/remainers, after previously being an advocate of it. Could you do that?

Can you name any negatives about the EU, our membership of it? Or is it all "plain sailing" in your eyes? Where were your red lines about membership?

If you cannot do that, then this exchange (that YOU began, FYI) is indeed over. And i'll not lament that it

There are of course negatives to membership of the EU but the positivex massively outweigh the negatives.

But we will be much better off under the stewardship of a bunch of old Etonian toffs fighting our corner against the 3 economic superpowers of China, the US and the EU.

You win. I'm beaten.

Enjoy