General Election - December 12th, 2019

[Chippy_boy]

Brexit should be no.1 policy for all parties given the current situation but not the only 1, how the fuck is Farage going to run the country, does anyone know?

I don't think he would want to, or would do.

The bigger issue though is that we all know there is literally zero chance of BXP winning the GE and Farage becoming PM. Zero.

And therefore despite some Brexit zeolots finding the idea of voting for BXP superficially appealing, they should have a very hard think about what voting in that way would ACTUALLY achieve. They may be imagining that BXP may get a handful of seats, which in theory could be influential in determining Tory policy on Brexit if those MPs were needed to support a Johnson majority. But that is false logic and is NOT what the effect would be.

Yes, they may secure a few BXP seats. But in the constituencies where BXP did not win, all they will have done is split the Tory vote, and in many constituencies - far more than the very few where they won - they will simply have enabled either Labour or the Lib Dems to win.

The upshot and supreme irony is that the more people who vote BXP, the more likely it is that we will see Corbyn in No. 10. And if that happens, then Brexit will be cancelled altogether. A Labour victory will mean a referendum of which the choice will be a shitty deal, or Remain. And Remain will win easily.

So vote BXP is you want to Remain in the EU. How ironic.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I'll preface everything with "I take your point but.."

No need; your perceived characteristic doesn’t impact on me on the slightest. You invited me to expand upon my observation and I duly obliged.

 

[Ban-jani]

They don't have policies just a slogan to get more seats - that 'strap line' is the Alpha & Omega as far as I'm concerned plus the fact they are not Tories or Marxists.

With all due respect George, you’re talking absolute shite.

As I say, you can find a comprehensive list of their policies, as you can every other party apart from a Farage’s, on their websites.

Below is 140 papers outlining each individual policy on everything that needs to be covered in British politics.

https://www.libdems.org.uk/policy_papers

Policy Papers
The Federal Policy Committee is responsible for researching and developing policy and appoints Policy Working Groups to develop policy papers on particular subjects. The FPC submits these policy papers to Conference for debate.

The Federal Policy Committee has also submitted one consultation paper ahead of consultation sessions at Spring Conference.

140 - The Nature of Public Debate (2019)

Below is a list of all the Policy Papers passed at Conference. Where more than one paper outlines policy on the same topic, the most recent supersedes previous papers.

139 - Tackling the Climate Emergency (2019)

138 - United Against Crime (2019)

137 - Save the NHS and Social Care by Stopping Brexit (2019)

136 - A Fairer Share for All (2019)

135 - Eradicating Race Inequality (2019) | [Motion]

134 - Demand Better: Liberal Democrat Priorities for a Better Britain (2018) | [Motion]

133 - Good Jobs, Better Businesses, Stronger Communities: Proposals for a new economy that really works for everyone (2018) | [Motion]

132 - Britain at the Heart of a Changing World (2018) | [Motion]

131 - A Fair Deal for Everyone: Prosperity and Dignity in Migration (2018) | [Motion]

130 - Power for People and Communities (2018) | [Motion]

129 - A Rural Future: Time to Act (2018) | [Motion]

128 - Every Child Empowered: Education for a Changing World (2018) | [Motion]

2017 General Election Manifesto (2017)

127 - Towards a World Free of Nuclear Weapons (2017) | [Motion]

126 - A Rational Approach to Harm Reduction (2017) | [Motion]

125 - The Opportunity to Succeed, the Potential to Change (2016) | [Motion]

124 - Mending the Safety Net (2016) | [Motion]

123- Safe and Free (2016) | [Motion]

2015 General Election Manifesto (2015)

122 - Age Ready Britain: Realising the Potential of an Ageing Society (2014) | [Motion]

121 - Pre-Manifesto - Enabling Every Person to Get On In Life (2014)

120 - Expanding Opportunity, Unlocking Potential (2014) | [Motion]

119 - Protecting Public Services and Making Them Work For You (2014)

118 - Doing What Works to Cut Crime (2014) | [Motion]

117 - Power to the People (2014)

116 - Making Migration Work for Britain (2014)

114 - Stronger Economy in a Fairer Society (2013) | [Motion]

113 - Prosperous, Sustainable and Secure (2013)

112 - Defending the Future (2013)

111 - Fairer Taxes (2013)

110 - Learning for Life (2013)

109 - Green Growth and Green Jobs (2013)

108 - A Balanced Working Life (2013)

107 - Tackling Inequality at its Roots (2012)

106 - Mutuals, Employee Ownership and Workplace Democracy (2012)

105 - Sustainable Prosperity and Jobs (2012)

104 - Decent Homes for All (2012)

103 - Giving Young People a Future (2012)

102 - A New Purpose for Politics: Quality of Life (2011)

101 - Preparing the Ground: Stimulating Growth in the Digital Economy (2011)

100 - Facing the Future (2011)

99 - Taking Responsibility (Policies on Youth Justice) (2011)

98 - Community Futures (Policies on the Voluntary Sector and Volunteering) (2011)

97 - Accountability to the Poor (Policies on International Development) (2010)

96 - Free to be Young (2010)

95 - Are We Being Served? (Policies on Accessing Goods and Services) (2009)

94 - A Fresh Start for Britain: Choosing a Different, Better Future (2009)

93 - Our Natural Heritage (Policies on the Natural Environment) (2009)

92 - Thriving in a Globalised World - A Strategy for Britain (Domestic Responses to Globalisation) (2009)

91 - Real Women (2009)

90 - Investing in Talent, Building the Economy (Policies for Adult Further and Higher Education) (2009)

89 - Equity and Excellence (Policies for 5-19 education in England's schools and colleges) (2009)

88 - The Best Start for Children, the Best Deal for Families: Proposals for Parental Leave and Universal Childcare for Under 5s (2009)

87 - Shaping Our World Through a Strong Europe: Reforming the EU’s Policies (2008)

86 - Security and Liberty in a Globalised World (2008)

85 - Fast Track Britain: Building a Transport System for the 21st Century (2008)

84 - Empowerment Fairness and Quality in Health Care (2008)

83 - For the People, By the People (2007)

82- Zero Carbon Britain – Taking a Global Lead (2007)

81 - Reducing the Burden (2007)

80 - Freedom From Poverty, Opportunity For All (2007)

79 - The Power to be Different (2007)

78 - Together We Can Cut Crime (2007)

77 - Green and Prosperous Communities (Local Regeneration for the 21st Century) (2007)

76 - Trust in People: Make Britain free, fair and green (2006)

75 - Fairer, Simpler, Greener (2006)

74 - Britain's Global Responsibilities: the international rule of law (2006)

72 - Stronger Families, Brighter Futures (2006)

71 - A Soft Landing: Creating a Sustainable Market in Aviation (Aviation Policy Paper) (2005)

70 - Rights and Responsibilities at Work (Employment and Trade Unions Policy Paper) (2005)

69 - Affordable Homes in Safer, Greener Communities (Housing Policy Paper) (2004)

68 - Healthy Communities, Healthy People (Health Policy Paper) (2004)

67 - Dignity and Security in Retirement (Pensions Policy Paper) (2004)

66 - Personal Best (Policies on Sport and Fitness) (2004)

65 - Wealth for the World (Policies on International Trade and Investment) (2004)

64 - A World Free From Poverty (Policies on International Development) (2004)

63 - Censorship and Freedom of Expression (2004)

62 - Fair Foundations (Policies for Early Years) (2003)

61 - Respecting All Animals (Animal Welfare Policy Paper) (2003)

60 - Promoting Independence, Protecting Individuals (Policies for a Caring Society) (2003)

59 - Setting Business Free (Commerce Policy Paper) (2003)

58 - Conserving the Future (Proposals on Energy Policy) (2003)

57 - Prosperity at Home and Abroad (The Report of the Liberal Democrat Macroeconomics Policy Working Group) (2003)

56 - Future of Europe (2003)

55 - Planning for the 21st Century (Proposals for Planning Policy) (2002)

54 - Making IT Work (Policies for Information Technology) (2002)

53 - Quality, Innovation, Choice (The Report of the Public Services Policy Commission) (2002)

52 - Rural Futures (2002)

51 - Justice and the Community (Proposals on Crime, Policing and the Criminal Justice System) (2002)

50 - It’s About Freedom (The Report of the Liberal Democracy Working Group) (2002)

49 - The Future of Broadcasting (2002)

48 - Defending Democracy (Proposals for Defence Policy) (2002)

47 - Honesty, Realism, Responsibility (Proposals for the Reform of Drugs Law) (2001)

46 - Transport for People (2001)

45 - Local Economies, Local Choice (2001)

44 - Protecting Civil Liberties (2001)

43 - An Inclusive Society (A Framework for Tackling Poverty and Social Exclusion) (2000)

42 - Working for Success (Employment and Employability for All) (2000)

41 - A Strategy for Sustainability (2000)

40 - Reforming Governance in the UK (Policies for Constitutional Reform) (2000)

39 - An Age of Opportunity (Policies for Older People) (2000)

38 - Art Figures (2000)

37 - Engaging Communities (Proposals for Urban Regeneration in England)

36 - A Clean Bill of Health (Policies on Paying for NHS and Social Care in England and Wales) (2000)

35 - Global Security, Stability and Sustainability

34 - Breaking Down Barriers (Policies on Disability) (1999)

32 - Housing Policy into the 21st Century (1999)

31 - Keeping the Balance (Policies on Genetic Modification) (1999)

30 - Re-inventing Local Government: Competent, Powerful and Free (Policies for the Reform of Local Government in England) (1998)

29 - Making the Environment Our Business (Proposals to Improve Business Efficiency and Environmental Performance) (1998)

28 - Rape Law Reform (Policies for Reform Law on Rape) (1998)

27 - Our Skies (1997)

26 - Living in the Greenhouse (Policies to Tackle Climate Change) (1997)

25 - A World of Opportunity (Policies for Developmental Co-operation) (1996)

24 - Water (Policies for Affordable, Available and Clean Water in England and Wales) (1996)

23 - A Home of Your Own (Policies for Housing in England and Wales) (1996)

22 - Conserving Tomorrow (Energy Policies for the Future) (1996)

21 - Investing in Excellence (Policies for Education in England and Wales) (1996)

20 - A Parliament for the People (Proposals to Reform the House of Commons) (1996)

19 - Meeting the European Challenge (Proposals for the 1996 Intergovernmental Conference) (1996)

18 - The Key to Lifelong Learning (Proposals for Tertiary Education in England and Wales) (1996)

17 - Stronger Communities, Safer Citizens (Proposals for Crime and Policing Policy in England and Wales)

16 - Investment, Partnership, Sustainability (Policies for the British Economy) (1995)

15 - Transporting People, Tackling Pollution (Liberal Democrat Proposals for Improving Transport in Britain) (1995)

14 - Building on the Best of the NHS (Proposals to Reform the National Health Service) (1995)

13 - Access for All (Proposals to Promote Equal Opportunities for Disabled People) (1995)

12 - The Balance of Trade (Proposals for Reforming International Trade) (1995)

11 - A Free and Open Society (1994)

10 - Equal Citizens (Proposals to Promote the Equal Treatment of Women) (1994)

09 - Working for Change (Promoting Jobs and Employability) (1994)

08 - Agenda for Sustainability (Tools for Creating a Sustainable Economy and Society) (1994)

07 - Opportunity and Independence for All (Proposals to Improve the Tax and Benefits System) (1994)

06 - Shared Security (Security and Defence in an Uncertain World) (1994)

05 - Reclaiming the Countryside (Proposals for Rural Affairs and Agriculture in England and Wales) (1994)

04 - A New Deal for Northern Ireland (Proposals for the Future of Northern Ireland) (1994)

03 - Confronting Prostitution (Liberal Democrat Proposals to Tackle Prostitution in England and Wales) (1994)

02 - Reclaiming the City (Proposals to Improve the Quality of Life in the Urban Areas of England and Wales) (1994)

01 - A Caring Society (Liberal Democrat Proposals to Improve the Organisation of Social Services) (1993)

 

[Chippy_boy]

I tend to go with the fact that Johnson was prepared to go with No Deal because its in him, he has ran his whole life doing some shocking things and getting away with it (not my words Rory Stewart ex tory MP). He actually doesn't give a fuck about anyone apart from himself how many men do you know who could be married for 25 years have 4 kids whilst having multiple affairs which produced 2 more children.

The second part is down to luck than judgement in the fact that Junker was leaving and he would just wanted to get the job done. You would have to be deluded to think that it was down to no deal that it pure and utter bullshit.

Johnson's deal is no fucking great achievements its May's deal with the Irish border moved down to the Irish sea along with a shift to the far right so that a there can be a bonfire with employment rights, and other standards. Its not even a polished turd its one that's been shat to get rid of the smell yet still given the emperors new clothes treatment.

It removed the all uk backstop. Which was the show-stopper. You can pontificate and speculate all you like about whether Boris' no deal threat worked or whether it was simply "coincidence". The fact is the EU's position changed markedly, having previously been adamant they would not touch the WA in any way, they did.

And moreover, the "cake or eat it" question stands. You cannot argue that "no deal" is a hollow threat, and at the same time argue that it's a real threat which must be taken off the table.

If it's a real possibility, then it is a useful negotiating tool. And if it isn't a real possibility, then Corbyn was disingenuous with his fucking about obstructing progress on Brexit. I am 100% certain Corbyn's motivations had fuck all to do with trying to ensure there is no "no deal" and everything to do with inflicting political damage on his opponent. As per the last 3 years.

 

[M18CTID]

I don't think he would want to, or would do.

The bigger issue though is that we all know there is literally zero chance of BXP winning the GE and Farage becoming PM. Zero.

And therefore despite some Brexit zeolots finding the idea of voting for BXP superficially appealing, they should have a very hard think about what voting in that way would ACTUALLY achieve. They may be imagining that BXP may get a handful of seats, which in theory could be influential in determining Tory policy on Brexit if those MPs were needed to support a Johnson majority. But that is false logic and is NOT what the effect would be.

Yes, they may secure a few BXP seats. But in the constituencies where BXP did not win, all they will have done is split the Tory vote, and in many constituencies - far more than the very few where they won - they will simply have enabled either Labour or the Lib Dems to win.

The upshot and supreme irony is that the more people who vote BXP, the more likely it is that we will see Corbyn in No. 10. And if that happens, then Brexit will be cancelled altogether. A Labour victory will mean a referendum of which the choice will be a shitty deal, or Remain. And Remain will win easily.

So vote BXP is you want to Remain in the EU. How ironic.

Is this the 2019 version of 4 years ago? Eg: vote anyone but Conservative if you want to stay in the EU and don't want the risk of a referendum on EU membership being granted ;)

Sorry - couldn't resist!

 

[Chippy_boy]

Is this the 2019 version of 4 years ago? Eg: vote anyone but Conservative if you want to stay in the EU and don't want the risk of a referendum on EU membership being granted ;)

Sorry - couldn't resist!

Not entirely sure what your point is. In 2015, a bigger vote for marginal parties instead of Labour, would have secured a bigger majority for the Conservatives, that is true.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Why should the LibDems not go for it in every constituency if they don’t agree with Labour or the Tories?

There’s a level of rag-like arrogance from Labour supporters towards the LibDems, it’s a sort of ‘how dare you try and take our votes or undermine the dear leader’.

I don’t like it, despite me not being a LibDems supporter.

They're their own party and they're free to do whatever they like. But they've been banging the drum about the damage Brexit will cause the country, they've promised they will revoke A50 and they'll get plenty of centrist remain votes as a result. But they're in no position to offer what they promise so their voters will be enabling a Tory Brexit when that's what they're supposedly voting against.

It's not arrogant to say Labour are the only party that can realistically stop Brexit or at the very least offer a second referendum. The Greens are on board, plaid are on board, the snp will be on board. The LD's can choose party politics or stopping Brexit but if it's the former then they will have to answer to those LD voters that shifted to them primarily for the latter.

 

[Mike D]

It removed the all uk backstop. Which was the show-stopper. You can pontificate and speculate all you like about whether Boris' no deal threat worked or whether it was simply "coincidence". The fact is the EU's position changed markedly, having previously been adamant they would not touch the WA in any way, they did.

And moreover, the "cake or eat it" question stands. You cannot argue that "no deal" is a hollow threat, and at the same time argue that it's a real threat which must be taken off the table.

Oh come on Chippy have a word with yourself I have heard countless political experts (that I can quote you if you want) who have said No Deal wasn't a threat and never has been for quite some time. It was down to luck that judgement on UK's part the deal still sucks.

Go and read yellow hammer and tell me No Deal isn't a big deal to us compared to 27 other countries just think about it logically not politically?

 

[Chippy_boy]

They're their own party and they're free to do whatever they like. But they've been banging the drum about the damage Brexit will cause the country, they've promised they will revoke A50 and they'll get plenty of centrist remain votes as a result. But they're in no position to offer what they promise so their voters will be enabling a Tory Brexit when that's what they're supposedly voting against.

It's not arrogant to say Labour are the only party that can realistically stop Brexit or at the very least offer a second referendum. The Greens are on board, plaid are on board, the snp will be on board. The LD's can choose party politics or stopping Brexit but if it's the former then they will have to answer to those LD voters that shifted to them primarily for the latter.

The Lib Dems can hardly say to people "Vote Labour" can they! It's up to Remainers to decide whether they can hold their noses and vote for the Marxist. I imagine for many the stench is too strong.

 

[M18CTID]

Not entirely sure what your point is. In 2015, a bigger vote for marginal parties instead of Labour, would have secured a bigger majority for the Conservatives, that is true.

It was more in reference to what Len said to you ages ago - that even though you voted Remain, you brought Brexit on yourself by voting Conservative in the first place. Coming from someone who was one of the biggest Leavers on here in the run-up to the referendum, I thought he was being a bit rich with that!