General Election - December 12th, 2019

[west didsblue]

When a man who wins a US presidential election gives you psephological advice, you'd be a fool to ignore it. Johnson will mirror Trump's demonising of Clinton and we'll see endless attacks (some justified) about Corbyn's links, past and present, to despots, tinpots and pisspots.

Sadly you are correct, and there will probably be enough people who will fall for it to hand Johnson the election.

Problem is there's one thing worse than having someone leading the country who has links to terrorist organisations, tolerates anti-Semitism and would have a Marxist as chancellor, and that is having a leader who would sell off the country to the highest bidder with the enthusiastic backing of his party.

Corbyn may be my second worst choice as PM but he is way ahead of my last choice. At least the PLP and likely coalition partners would prevent him and McDonnell from doing too much harm whilst the Tory MPs would give Johnson their full support in his attempts to feather the nests of his backers at the expense of much of the population.

 

[Ban-jani]

That's how the people of Norway like it. So did Farage once (or was he lying?).

Yes they do.

Their politicians have been banging their heads against the wall because they know EU membership is better than what they have but the public have voted against it.

The former PM couldn’t believe we’d want to swap EU membership for EFTA.

Farage said in 2016 ‘we can be Norway, what’s wrong with Norway??’ on Question Time.

A Norway/EFTA style deal is a lot closer to the EU than Johnson’s deal, even closer than May’s deal.

He’s a lying turd that needs to oppose the government to keep himself relevant. His only options are now to form a pact with Johnson, Johnson said no, or to make himself more Brexity than Johnson.

Is all to serve himself. He’s a ****.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Always trust your feelings GDM ;) The aggressively presented monochrome posturing of the election rivals are carefully designed to feed a lack of respect for others in their social media support. It'll get much worse for sure and looking at the final page of the locked Corbyn thread it isn't just Labour who are mobilizing their ranks for a scaled up dirty digital war either.

all the locked political threads tell a story. Maybe there is a frustration when seeing the poll at the top of the page? The one on the Caff is even more emphatic.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Yes, that’s a good shout. Seems to be a lot of overlap in the threads at the moment so it’d make sense to keep it to one thread for the time being.

No it really wouldn't make sense. Now you'll just get a thread where there's a million different arguments going on. How many times did we split or set up new threads when this happened previously?

 

[inbetween]

Norway is a worse position than full EU membership.

Ask any politician in Norway and they will tell you.

You’re in the Single Market but you’re a rule taker, you don’t have a seat at the table and any new regulations well, put up and shut up.

Do you want the UK to be in that position? It’s a massive fall from grace.

Iceland are also not fully in the EU but they are seeing good growth and have similar living standards to Norway. The EU is not the be all and end all of everything.

Having a say is over-rated, we have had a say for half a century and look how it has helped us. If we can leave the EU and sign trade deals then we are choosing to have a say in another aspect that we currently have no say so there isn't a big difference.

Iceland is not in the EU because Iceland's major export is fishing and EU membership would resign fishing controls to the EU.

The reason the Nordic countries are heralded so highly is because they don't care about EU politics. They only care about putting their own people first and doing what is best for them first. This is why they are part in the EU and part not for the bits they hold as important.

Our various governments haven't put us first for decades and that is why we are talking of Brexit instead of talking about how we implement policies supported by our strengths for the better of everyone.

 

[blueinsa]

Yes, that’s a good shout. Seems to be a lot of overlap in the threads at the moment so it’d make sense to keep it to one thread for the time being.

Sorry but that goes against everything you have always said.

No mega threads.

We have an election campaign going on and have the Labour party, Conservative party and Corbyn thread locked?

 

[johnnytapia]

Yes they do.

Their politicians have been banging their heads against the wall because they know EU membership is better than what they have but the public have voted against it.

The former PM couldn’t believe we’d want to swap EU membership for EFTA.

Farage said in 2016 ‘we can be Norway, what’s wrong with Norway??’ on Question Time.

A Norway/EFTA style deal is a lot closer to the EU than Johnson’s deal, even closer than May’s deal.

He’s a lying turd that needs to oppose the government to keep himself relevant. His only options are now to form a pact with Johnson, Johnson said no, or to make himself more Brexity than Johnson.

Is all to serve himself. He’s a ****.

Wonder where we've heard that before, politicians "knowing EU membership is better" but the public disagree and vote against it?

 

[bluejon]

The wealthiest individuals in this country, around 1%, pay almost 30% of the tax take,

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/richest-pay-30-of-income-tax-p9rxh292ztv
https://fullfact.org/economy/income-tax-are-top-1-really-paying-more/

Your argument wants these people to pay much more, how much more, in your estimation?
Bear in mind that these are indeed wealthy, but also, reasonable individuals, who believe they should indeed be
contributing, and do so to an extremely large amount of their earnings.
Bear in mind as well, that these same individuals will decamp to other countries if they are taxed higher than now.
Which means, increased taxation = less tax received, as was exactly the case in the '60's and '70's when the exact same
tired and envy ridden policies you espouse were introduced. At one stage the top tax rate was set at 83%, with an additional
15% on bank holdings, effectively 98% tax, the resultant flight of capital crippled the country, and we were basically well in
the shit. Anyone, ( Exile on Main Street was the Rolling Stones' flight to southern France), who had any real money simply did one.
Labour's policies wish to reflect this scenario once more, although with a declared Marxist holding the purse strings,
it would almost certainly be even worse.

Those figures simply tell me the richest 1% are earning too fucking much.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

The wealthiest individuals in this country, around 1%, pay almost 30% of the tax take,

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/richest-pay-30-of-income-tax-p9rxh292ztv
https://fullfact.org/economy/income-tax-are-top-1-really-paying-more/

Your argument wants these people to pay much more, how much more, in your estimation?
Bear in mind that these are indeed wealthy, but also, reasonable individuals, who believe they should indeed be
contributing, and do so to an extremely large amount of their earnings.
Bear in mind as well, that these same individuals will decamp to other countries if they are taxed higher than now.
Which means, increased taxation = less tax received, as was exactly the case in the '60's and '70's when the exact same
tired and envy ridden policies you espouse were introduced. At one stage the top tax rate was set at 83%, with an additional
15% on bank holdings, effectively 98% tax, the resultant flight of capital crippled the country, and we were basically well in
the shit. Anyone, ( Exile on Main Street was the Rolling Stones' flight to southern France), who had any real money simply did one.
Labour's policies wish to reflect this scenario once more, although with a declared Marxist holding the purse strings,
it would almost certainly be even worse.

Both articles were produced in 2013


And Andrew Neill destroyed this on Politics Live recently in an interview with Vicky Ford (Tory) and Clive lewis (Labour)

 

[bluethrunthru]

Iceland are also not fully in the EU but they are seeing good growth and have similar living standards to Norway. The EU is not the be all and end all of everything.

Having a say is over-rated, we have had a say for half a century and look how it has helped us. If we can leave the EU and sign trade deals then we are choosing to have a say in another aspect that we currently have no say so there isn't a big difference.

Iceland is not in the EU because Iceland's major export is fishing and EU membership would resign fishing controls to the EU.

The reason the Nordic countries are heralded so highly is because they don't care about EU politics. They only care about putting their own people first and doing what is best for them first. This is why they are part in the EU and part not for the bits they hold as important.

Our various governments haven't put us first for decades and that is why we are talking of Brexit instead of talking about how we implement policies supported by our strengths for the better of everyone.

we have had a limited say for half a century and have done so by choice by going for opt outs on many important issues - then oddly proclaiming them as victories when they are "won" but examples of how badly the EU are treating us when the impact of what we have chosen happens.

It will be the same over FOM - It was cheered to the rafters the other week because we had "won" it - already its coming out about how fruit and veg isn't being picked and meat processing plants are going short staffed and will struggle to meet Christmas demand. I predict next summer will be full of Torygraph and Fail headlines about Brits hours of delay and agony getting into foreign countries because we will have to use the longer queue. It will all be the EU's fault of course.

It will gradually dawn that we haven't got and never were going to get all the benefits of membership from the outside. And it will be all our own doing.