General Election - December 12th, 2019

[inbetween]

I think there will be ultimately - as we see ever further use of AI and of robots, the value of human effort will be steadily diminished with a corresponding concentration of increasing wealth in a smaller and smaller group of people. Ultimately it will snap. But I think this is many decades away.

Clive Lewis was on just now decrying the existence of any billionaires at all. Whilst I get his point about the inequality and undesirability of seeing people sleeping rough whilst a few have a billion, he hasn't really thought it through. Billionaires don't become billionaires overnight. First they have millions and then tens of millions. And if you start taxing them too much, they bugger off. Or maybe they just stop growing their business and creating new jobs because they can't be arsed because the rewards for doing so will be taken away. So the idea we can simply take millions more off these people is flawed.

Until there is global coordination about this, any unilateral efforts on our part would be counter productive. They might make the left feel a bit better that they had "punished" the rich. But that is all

Becoming Norway or something similar should be where we want to go but what certain folk cannot understand is this is not what is on offer from Labour. We need to accept capitalism, embrace it and use it to it's maximum to fund greater social ideas.

My massive worry with Labour is with people like Mcdonnell who has done exceptionally well to disguise the fact that he is a very dangerous individual. He comes across as moderate in public but on many occasions he has shown how extreme he is.

What Mcdonnell would do to the country is nothing like Norway, he wants a Soviet Union. His language also reflects the Soviet Union, use of words like insurrection, assassination and force are just not regular for a wooly socialist.

This is why Labour would never get my vote and I won't even get started on how incompetents like Diane Abbott or any of the others who would oversee an absolute shambles.

I don't mind people like Starmer or Thornberry but again these are probably the people who would be Tories had they not gone to private school and particular universities.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Becoming Norway or something similar should be where we want to go but what certain folk cannot understand is this is not what is on offer from Labour. We need to accept capitalism, embrace it and use it to it's maximum to fund greater social ideas.

My massive worry with Labour is with people like Mcdonnell who has done exceptionally well to disguise the fact that he is a very dangerous individual. He comes across as moderate in public but on many occasions he has shown how extreme he is.

What Mcdonnell would do to the country is nothing like Norway, he wants a Soviet Union. His language also reflects the Soviet Union, use of words like insurrection, assassination and force are just not regular for a wooly socialist.

This is why Labour would never get my vote and I won't even get started on how incompetents like Diane Abbott or any of the others who would oversee an absolute shambles.

I don't mind people like Starmer or Thornberry but again these are probably the people who would be Tories had they not gone to private school and particular universities.

one good thing about Norway is that everyone’s tax contribution to society is made public. Every October the tax returns of everyone are made public and anyone can see what everyone contributes to the pot.

it’s a completely opposite way to view wealth, unlike in the uk where anyone is a high earner is deemed by many to be a tax avoiding silver spoon selfish wanker, in Norway it’s measured by your tax contribution to societies pot

so if you pay a high amount of tax into society , which everyone can see online, then you are seen as someone who makes a significant financial contribution to society and thanked for that contribution to the system.

Imagine being able to see the amount of tax everyone pays on your street and it being transparent about how much in cash terms we all contribute to schools, hospitals etc.

 

[Ban-jani]

Becoming Norway or something similar should be where we want to go but what certain folk cannot understand is this is not what is on offer from Labour. We need to accept capitalism, embrace it and use it to it's maximum to fund greater social ideas.

My massive worry with Labour is with people like Mcdonnell who has done exceptionally well to disguise the fact that he is a very dangerous individual. He comes across as moderate in public but on many occasions he has shown how extreme he is.

What Mcdonnell would do to the country is nothing like Norway, he wants a Soviet Union. His language also reflects the Soviet Union, use of words like insurrection, assassination and force are just not regular for a wooly socialist.

This is why Labour would never get my vote and I won't even get started on how incompetents like Diane Abbott or any of the others who would oversee an absolute shambles.

I don't mind people like Starmer or Thornberry but again these are probably the people who would be Tories had they not gone to private school and particular universities.

Norway is a worse position than full EU membership.

Ask any politician in Norway and they will tell you.

You’re in the Single Market but you’re a rule taker, you don’t have a seat at the table and any new regulations well, put up and shut up.

Do you want the UK to be in that position? It’s a massive fall from grace.

 

[jay_mcfc]

one good thing about Norway is that everyone’s tax contribution to society is made public. Every October the tax returns of everyone are made public and anyone can see what everyone contributes to the pot.

it’s a completely opposite way to view wealth, unlike in the uk where anyone is a high earner is deemed by many to be a tax avoiding silver spoon selfish wanker, in Norway it’s measured by your tax contribution to societies pot

so if you pay a high amount of tax into society , which everyone can see online, then you are seen as someone who makes a significant financial contribution to society and thanked for that contribution to the system.

Imagine being able to see the amount of tax everyone pays on your street and it being transparent about how much in cash terms we all contribute to schools, hospitals etc.

Meanwhile

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-havens-justice-network-dodging-a8933661.html

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Concentrating too much cash in the hands of the wealthy is stupid for economic productivity as the rich don't spend the same percentage of their spare cash as the less well off do. My argument isn't just based on 'what i think would be nice', it's based on what i believe would be the most successful version of our economy. And this isn't about 'giving it to others', it's about building infrastructure (both physical and social) that will benefit the country as a whole.

The wealthiest individuals in this country, around 1%, pay almost 30% of the tax take,

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/richest-pay-30-of-income-tax-p9rxh292ztv
https://fullfact.org/economy/income-tax-are-top-1-really-paying-more/

Your argument wants these people to pay much more, how much more, in your estimation?
Bear in mind that these are indeed wealthy, but also, reasonable individuals, who believe they should indeed be
contributing, and do so to an extremely large amount of their earnings.
Bear in mind as well, that these same individuals will decamp to other countries if they are taxed higher than now.
Which means, increased taxation = less tax received, as was exactly the case in the '60's and '70's when the exact same
tired and envy ridden policies you espouse were introduced. At one stage the top tax rate was set at 83%, with an additional
15% on bank holdings, effectively 98% tax, the resultant flight of capital crippled the country, and we were basically well in
the shit. Anyone, ( Exile on Main Street was the Rolling Stones' flight to southern France), who had any real money simply did one.
Labour's policies wish to reflect this scenario once more, although with a declared Marxist holding the purse strings,
it would almost certainly be even worse.

 

[Bluemanc100]

Becoming Norway or something similar should be where we want to go but what certain folk cannot understand is this is not what is on offer from Labour. We need to accept capitalism, embrace it and use it to it's maximum to fund greater social ideas.

My massive worry with Labour is with people like Mcdonnell who has done exceptionally well to disguise the fact that he is a very dangerous individual. He comes across as moderate in public but on many occasions he has shown how extreme he is.

What Mcdonnell would do to the country is nothing like Norway, he wants a Soviet Union. His language also reflects the Soviet Union, use of words like insurrection, assassination and force are just not regular for a wooly socialist.

This is why Labour would never get my vote and I won't even get started on how incompetents like Diane Abbott or any of the others who would oversee an absolute shambles.

I don't mind people like Starmer or Thornberry but again these are probably the people who would be Tories had they not gone to private school and particular universities.

It astounds me that others don't focus in on the guy.. the Esther McVey comments are typical of the man when his mask slips and these traits are surely incompatible with senior office

 

[Ban-jani]

Trump interfering in our General Election is a fucking disgrace - the man has no shame.

 

[adrianr]

Why do you care that the rich are getting richer?

I am not rich, but I could not give a toss whether the rich are getting richer. Not one toss.

What I care about is whether I am getting richer, or whether the policies someone is proposing will make me richer or poorer. Baffles me peoples obsession with "other people", especially if that obsession is wanting to see them do worse. Obsessing about wanting help others, fine. Obsessing about others doing better? Seems a bit sick to me, tbh.

It's a matter of trajectory, because society and the world at large is just one giant equation that needs to remain in some sort of balance. We live on a planet of finite resources, and one in which the procurement of those resources is driven almost entirely by money. Therefore if money is pooled, resources are pooled. If we're to support the population, resources need to be shared. That doesn't mean full blown communism, but full blown capitalism is just as dangerous. You should care when uncountable individuals are so rich they can practically purchase Governments.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Trump interfering in our General Election is a fucking disgrace - the man has no shame.

that was a farage plant .

to rubbish the deal as he wants no deal , in fact I think he wants us to stay in as him being anti Eu gives him a living and a purpose

and for trump to big up Nigel

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I think that , also we now see videos posted on news sites of incidents that may have happened years ago which we would never have seen , also 24 hour news.
However I just think basic manners have gone, or going from society. On the tram nobody stands up to let an old person sit down. They just stare at their phone.

it’s awful though that mps feel they have to step down because of the abuse they get from members of public, death threats and threats of violence are a disgrace against public servants.

However look at the example they set in the house over the last year - they all just stand up and take it turns to stand up and insult another member of Parliament . The public watch this anger and get angry as well. The level of manners and politeness is none existent .its often like a chippy / fumble classic ding dong.

they and we all need to turn the dial down a bit.

There’s no doubt that mobile technology is making people less social, considerate and polite - and most of us, myself included, are guilty, to some extent or other.