General Election - December 12th, 2019

[Len Rum]

Latest Downing St - the government will not be extending the transition period beyond Dec 2020!
Gosh,golly, that's frightening Jeff.
Probably means no deal.
Or maybe come the time the Govt. err.........will extend it.
As you were.
No deal threats are so last summer.

 

[purplenose]

Totally agree with you. Bob's logic is flawed IMO because he hasn't asked the one extremely important question: Could we be sufficiently sure of our allies' (i.e the US') commitment to defend the UK, if their doing so was to necessarily involve hundreds of thousands or even millions of US lives lost?

I think the answer to that is a resounding "no". And once you realise that, then you understand why we MUST have our own deterrent.

EDIT: And incidentally, anyone coming to that conclusion must also therefore come to the conclusion that Jeremy Corbyn cannot be Prime Minister, since if he is, then we have no nuclear deterrent. His Prime Ministership renders the weapons useless since every would-be aggressor knows he would never fire them.

And this among a few other factors is why I and many others who hate the Tories cannot and will not vote for Labour whilst it maintains its current leadership and direction.

Boris knows that he is in deep trouble but also knows that his biggest hope of getting out of it is the dire and un electable nature of Corbyns Labour party. I hate to say it but I think he is right as well.

 

[purplenose]

Latest Downing St - the government will not be extending the transition period beyond Dec 2020!
Gosh,golly, that's frightening Jeff.
Probably means no deal.
Or maybe come the time the Govt. err.........will extend it.
As you were.
No deal threats are so last summer.

I suspect the second referendum will be held around late March Early April so an extension until April the 30th should do the trick.

 

[BobKowalski]

Totally agree with you. Bob's logic is flawed IMO because he hasn't asked the one extremely important question: Could we be sufficiently sure of our allies' (i.e the US') commitment to defend the UK, if their doing so was to necessarily involve hundreds of thousands or even millions of US lives lost?

I think the answer to that is a resounding "no". And once you realise that, then you understand why we MUST have our own deterrent.

EDIT: And incidentally, anyone coming to that conclusion must also therefore come to the conclusion that Jeremy Corbyn cannot be Prime Minister, since if he is, then we have no nuclear deterrent. His Prime Ministership renders the weapons useless since every would-be aggressor knows he would never fire them.

The US will not allow the U.K. to wage an independent nuclear war. The US was very reluctant to support us in waging a conventional war in the Falklands as it was seen as inimical to their own interests in South America. Any nuclear war being waged will be at the control and direction of the US. This is just a statement of the reality of power, might and size. What ever we seek to do has to align with US interests otherwise it isn’t happening. Suez told us that.

The seperate question of whether we should be reliant on or be in the US pocket when it comes to defence applies to us and to Europe as a whole which is why Europe should establish its own level of defence and will probably do so in the future.

Trident is domestic defence policy. It creates an illusion of security and voids the necessity of defence spending where it really matters. Conventional forces. Trident is, to quote Mao, a paper tiger.

 

[blueinsa]

It's not actually ours though is it ? We can't use it without the yanks permission ?

Wrong, wrong and just plain wrong again.

 

[blueinsa]

We pay for it but we don't get told how or whether we can use it.

I have a German car but the Germans don't tell me when or where I can drive.



Not true either, it is independent and the PM makes the decision (something Corbyn refuses to do).

If that is compromised and the PM can't decide then the sub captain follows the orders from the PM that are locked in the safe on the sub.

Thanks for injecting some facts into the debate mate.

 

[BobKowalski]

Latest Downing St - the government will not be extending the transition period beyond Dec 2020!
Gosh,golly, that's frightening Jeff.
Probably means no deal.
Or maybe come the time the Govt. err.........will extend it.
As you were.
No deal threats are so last summer.

Yeah. Surprised they blundered into that one given they have been avoiding that trap. We will not agree a deal with the EU in 11 months especially with regard to the new and unique arrangements for NI. The only way it will happen is if we commit ourselves fully to the EU economic zone as a non political member. The no deal dance has been done to death. If we can’t figure that out after the last three years then we are beyond stupid.

 

[BobKowalski]

Thanks for injecting some facts into the debate mate.

I remember the last time German cars and German carmakers were used as ‘facts’. Happier times.

 

[Chippy_boy]

The US will not allow the U.K. to wage an independent nuclear war. The US was very reluctant to support us in waging a conventional war in the Falklands as it was seen as inimical to their own interests in South America. Any nuclear war being waged will be at the control and direction of the US. This is just a statement of the reality of power, might and size. What ever we seek to do has to align with US interests otherwise it isn’t happening. Suez told us that.

The seperate question of whether we should be reliant on or be in the US pocket when it comes to defence applies to us and to Europe as a whole which is why Europe should establish its own level of defence and will probably do so in the future.

Trident is domestic defence policy. It creates an illusion of security and voids the necessity of defence spending where it really matters. Conventional forces. Trident is, to quote Mao, a paper tiger.

I think you are simply wrong Bob. You have an opinion based on your own speculations and so do others, with equally valid opinions. Your just restating your position endlessly does not make it correct.

However, if we adopt the position you favour, and you are wrong then the consequences could be incalculable. If we adopt my position and I am wrong, no harm is done.

 

[Ban-jani]

The US will not allow the U.K. to wage an independent nuclear war. The US was very reluctant to support us in waging a conventional war in the Falklands as it was seen as inimical to their own interests in South America. Any nuclear war being waged will be at the control and direction of the US. This is just a statement of the reality of power, might and size. What ever we seek to do has to align with US interests otherwise it isn’t happening. Suez told us that.

The seperate question of whether we should be reliant on or be in the US pocket when it comes to defence applies to us and to Europe as a whole which is why Europe should establish its own level of defence and will probably do so in the future.

Trident is domestic defence policy. It creates an illusion of security and voids the necessity of defence spending where it really matters. Conventional forces. Trident is, to quote Mao, a paper tiger.

And this is why an EU Army makes total sense but that’s another argument.

I’m still pro Trident through.