General Election - December 12th, 2019

[The perfect fumble]

Imagine if there's only 1 Tory candidate as will be the case in perhaps 630 seats. And imagine the Brexit party and the Tories have done a deal. And imagine the Remain vote is split between Labour and LibDem, as it certainly will be.

Not such a rosy picture that is it comrade.

If the Tories do a deal with the Brexit Party they're finished.

That would mean all the Tories candidates would have to sign up for no deal, that's not going to happen. Besides you fundamentally misunderstand the Brexit Party, they can only steal from the Tory base, they can't broaden it.

The Lib Dems pose a threat to Labour that's true, but with Labour now promising a referendum it dilutes the Lib Dems appeal, besides Swinson's past will catch up with her and Labour's ground game and manifesto will cut her down to size, Labour may not win you're right, but they are in a better position than you think.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Corbyn is a leaver so remainers can't trust him, Seamus Milne is as bad as Dominic Cummings, Corbyn lies as much as Johnson, John McDonnell is more dangerous than a hard Brexit, Corbyn is only out for his own political advancement, he's a terrorist sympathiser, a Marxist who'll turn us in to Venezuela, toxic at the ballot box, frail in health and a bit dim.....Oh and he's an anti-Semite.

I'll get back to you with the rest.

Just stating these things Fumble, does NOT mean you have proved them to be untrue.

They ARE true. All of them.

If course you know this, which is all part of your clever game, to try to detract, deflect and diminish.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Just stating these things Fumble, does NOT mean you have proved them to be untrue.

They ARE true. All of them.

If course you know this, which is all part of your clever game, to try to detract, deflect and diminish.

You're a bit odd.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

A bit?

 

[The perfect fumble]

Johnson had his arse handed to him here....

 

[Chippy_boy]

You're a bit odd.

Hello pot, kettle here.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Cheadle_hulmeBlue knows this, everyone knows this, it's just not useful for his argument to acknowledge it, so he doesn't.

Other selective memory lapses and recurring themes are....

Corbyn is a leaver so remainers can't trust him, Seamus Milne is as bad as Dominic Cummings, Corbyn lies as much as Johnson, John McDonnell is more dangerous than a hard Brexit, Corbyn is only out for his own political advancement, he's a terrorist sympathiser, a Marxist who'll turn us in to Venezuela, toxic at the ballot box, frail in health and a bit dim.....Oh and he's an anti-Semite.

I'll get back to you with the rest.

He’s also a gooner

 

[Fred_Quimby]

We are entering a post-democratic phase, which moves us beyond democracy into a world that now offers confrontation rather than compromise, We have to some extent gone beyond the idea of rule by the people and are challenging the need for rule at all. This is imitated in the shifting balance within citizenship and the inherent lack of a stake in society. This has left democracy open to manipulation as deference to elected parliamentarians fails. Politicians are reduced to the role of salesmen rather than statesmen and seek to discover what sells best to the electorate. This of course opens politics up to the sort of manipulation techniques we see used by salesmen and politics becomes a marketing exercise rather than an attempt to form a government. This leads to party rivalry becoming bland and vacuous, as policies are decided on a sales pitch rather than as a movement of democratic change. This leads to lower participation in elections whilst increasing the sales techniques and opens the door for nefarious outside interest groups to influence the democratic process. The bus promise being a prime example of the sales pitch technique that has so divided the country and alienated half the electorate.

Hence we see the increase in wealth based interests becoming the parliamentary norm, as its those interests who control the sales pitch to the electorate. The lack of stake holding as we see by the amount of trust lost by our politicians is damaging to the electoral process as it can no longer nullify the vested interests of those whose influence pervades. Some of the consequences can be seen, the demonization of the welfare state is an inherent result of the lack of stake holding in democracy brought about by the sales pitch of those seeking power. There is no doubt in my mind this lack of stake holding and the views that politicians are liars has moved us immeasureably closer to the American system of democracy where money talks louder and influences more.

We have to be very careful in how we look at our politicians because in all honesty I don't think any of them enter politics to do bad things, they do bad things though. To lump them altogether as liars and crooks is harmful to democracy and opens the door to authoritarianism as a strongman can use the sales pitch technique to persuade the electorate he is the answer to the crooked ways of the lying incompetents. This never ends well though and I think all of us whoever we support have to take a deep breath and realise we are at a critical junction in our history, If we go with the lying crooks approach I fear democracy is history and we become a non-democratic country. I understand that disappointment in long held beliefs not being delivered is harmful to democracy, but some democracy is better than no democracy at all.

All I can say @Rascal is thank you. Extremely well put.

 

[Banned Tosspot]

Johnson had his arse handed to him here....

Corbyn is ironic as fuck!

 

[The perfect fumble]

He’s also a gooner

He is blud.