General Election - December 12th, 2019

[Fred_Quimby]

Do you know there are 4 million remain voting Tories, and many more that didn't vote or don't want a no deal Brexit?

If Boris wins it will be in a coalition with Nigel Farage and put the country on the brink of a no deal Brexit. But you keep talking about the dangers of Corbyn.

I fear that this is absolutely correct. God help us if we get a coalition of right wing Tories and Farages.

 

[M18CTID]

Yay, here we go. anti Semitism.

We should play Corbyn bingo today.

I have Chippy Boy down as saying he is a Marxist

Just to clarify something I’ve stated on here previously - I don’t think Corbyn himself is anti-Semitic per se but I do believe some of his mates are, hence him failing to get on top of the AS issues in the Labour Party.

 

[Ban-jani]

Just to clarify something I’ve stated on here previously - I don’t think Corbyn himself is anti-Semitic per se but I do believe some of his mates are, hence him failing to get on top of the AS issues in the Labour Party.

Who’s this per se fella?

 

[M18CTID]

I am sure you aware Sinn Fein never take their seats because they will not swear allegiance to the crown.

So your answer is obviously a reference to the supposed support of the IRA. Sad really. It was talking that brought about the GFA. Even Thatcher did it.

She did indeed mate. Another one to add to the list of people who did more for the NI peace process than Corbyn ;)

 

[M18CTID]

Who’s this per se fella?

Per Se Thrower - he used to be the Blue Peter gardener.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I fear that this is absolutely correct. God help us if we get a coalition of right wing Tories and Farages.

You won't.

The Brexit Party are a spoiler party, they can only piss on Tory chips, especially in a first past the post system.

Imagine a scenario where you get a Tory candidate, a "rebel" now ex Tory candidate, maybe an ex Tory Change UK candidate and a Brexit Party candidate, all standing in the same constituency, the Monster Raving Loonies would stand a better chance.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I'd rather cut my cock off with a rusty spoon than see Corbyn, that loathsome piece of shit, in Downing street. Unless employed as a cleaner, and even then it's iffy.

I've a rusty spoon knocking about somewhere, it's yours mate, I'll pay the postage.

 

[Chippy_boy]

You won't.

The Brexit Party are a spoiler party, they can only piss on Tory chips, especially in a first past the post system.

Imagine a scenario where you get a Tory candidate, a "rebel" now ex Tory candidate, maybe an ex Tory Change UK candidate and a Brexit Party candidate, all standing in the same constituency, the Monster Raving Loonies would stand a better chance.

Imagine if there's only 1 Tory candidate as will be the case in perhaps 630 seats. And imagine the Brexit party and the Tories have done a deal. And imagine the Remain vote is split between Labour and LibDem, as it certainly will be.

Not such a rosy picture that is it comrade.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

What on earth is wrong with you???

You say that now but I bet you’ll be humming it for days.

 

[Rascal]

They're all liars mate. You kind of expect it from the Tories though whereas I was brought up to believe that Labour were that bit more honest and caring (which I've long since realised is bollocks), plus I don't think Johnson has gone through his entire political career claiming to be as principled as Corbyn has.

We are entering a post-democratic phase, which moves us beyond democracy into a world that now offers confrontation rather than compromise, We have to some extent gone beyond the idea of rule by the people and are challenging the need for rule at all. This is imitated in the shifting balance within citizenship and the inherent lack of a stake in society. This has left democracy open to manipulation as deference to elected parliamentarians fails. Politicians are reduced to the role of salesmen rather than statesmen and seek to discover what sells best to the electorate. This of course opens politics up to the sort of manipulation techniques we see used by salesmen and politics becomes a marketing exercise rather than an attempt to form a government. This leads to party rivalry becoming bland and vacuous, as policies are decided on a sales pitch rather than as a movement of democratic change. This leads to lower participation in elections whilst increasing the sales techniques and opens the door for nefarious outside interest groups to influence the democratic process. The bus promise being a prime example of the sales pitch technique that has so divided the country and alienated half the electorate.

Hence we see the increase in wealth based interests becoming the parliamentary norm, as its those interests who control the sales pitch to the electorate. The lack of stake holding as we see by the amount of trust lost by our politicians is damaging to the electoral process as it can no longer nullify the vested interests of those whose influence pervades. Some of the consequences can be seen, the demonization of the welfare state is an inherent result of the lack of stake holding in democracy brought about by the sales pitch of those seeking power. There is no doubt in my mind this lack of stake holding and the views that politicians are liars has moved us immeasureably closer to the American system of democracy where money talks louder and influences more.

We have to be very careful in how we look at our politicians because in all honesty I don't think any of them enter politics to do bad things, they do bad things though. To lump them altogether as liars and crooks is harmful to democracy and opens the door to authoritarianism as a strongman can use the sales pitch technique to persuade the electorate he is the answer to the crooked ways of the lying incompetents. This never ends well though and I think all of us whoever we support have to take a deep breath and realise we are at a critical junction in our history, If we go with the lying crooks approach I fear democracy is history and we become a non-democratic country. I understand that disappointment in long held beliefs not being delivered is harmful to democracy, but some democracy is better than no democracy at all.