General Election - December 12th, 2019

[Rascal]

Has it ever been proven beyond reasonable doubt that Johnson is a narcissist? Not having a go by the way and it's a general question not just applicable to Johnson, but I see accusations of narcissism lobbed around at famous people all the time and it's not really possible to come to that conclusion just because they display certain traits in their day job that could be perceived as narcissistic. You see plenty of people behave like cunts at work - behaviour that can be consistent with narcissism - but they're totally different when at home and are actually anything but a narcissist (of course, it's entirely possible to be a **** but not be a narcissist). If we were to label everyone who displayed narcissistic traits at certain times as a narcissist then there would be a hell of a lot more narcissists in the world than there actually are. On the flip side, very few people have ever been diagnosed as narcissistic because as a general rule of thumb the vast majority of narcissists would never admit what they are and would never be persuaded to seek a professional diagnosis so the only way to really work out if someone is a narcissist or not is to actually spend a lot of time at close quarters with that person over a sustained period of time rather than someone we don't like but don't personally know displaying a few traits when on TV and reaching a conclusion that way.

Unfortunately for me, I'm one such person who has experienced narcissism first-hand and at close quarters for over 40 years. For many years I didn't know that person was a narcissist (I just thought they were a **** like you do with Johnson lol), because while I was aware of the term, I didn't know anything about it. It was only when it was pointed out to me about 5 or 6 years ago that that person might well be a narcissist that I decided to do some extensive research into the subject and it didn't take long for all the pieces to fall into place.

I think you make a fair number of points, of course I cant prove he is and I doubt anybody has studied him to an extent that proof is irrefutable, maybe he just shows the traits and not the overall package. He certainly loves himself, he is certainly vain and arrogant and I would argue his faux personality of being the bumbling fool is a form of self flattery. Does he suffer from it to the point of it being classed as a mental disorder, no probably not, maybe it is all part of his "act" and he uses it as an attempt to cover for the fact he is just a nasty entitled ****.

Also I think his upbringing and background contribute enormously to the perception I have of him. He is alien to me, I am a working class lad from Salford, he is my polar opposite being of a rather exotic lineage and a product of a privileged education that is beyond anything I understand. It seems to be natural to him to be able to lie and he expects to get away with it, if I lie its likely my mam will call out me out for it as in my upbringing a lie is an anathema to how we perceive ourselves as honest fair minded Manchester folk.

Therefore in conclusion its my perception of him, I don't like him because he is not what I am used to, he is contrary to everything I was taught was right and proper.

I know that probably does not answer your point, but its the best I can do.

 

[Chippy_boy]

One thing is for sure, we can all blame (or thank, depending on your perspective) one person, for this particular mess.

Had Theresa May not run such a complacent and utterly dire election campaigns in 2017, this thread would not exist.

She had a 20 point lead going into that GE,which if maintained, would have given her a majority of over 100. Yes Corbyn did much better than expected, but she was so abjectly awful, she alone managed to destroy all of that lead. Had she been even semi-competent she would have surely had a decent working majority of say 30 to 50.

And in those circumstances, her red lines might have been entirely different, and even if not and we still ended up with the same Msy withdrawal agreement, it would have been passed by now anyway.

Of course we can all blame call me Dave for starting this. But ultimately it is May's uselessness which has led us to here.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I think you make a fair number of points, of course I cant prove he is and I doubt anybody has studied him to an extent that proof is irrefutable, maybe he just shows the traits and not the overall package. He certainly loves himself, he is certainly vain and arrogant and I would argue his faux personality of being the bumbling fool is a form of self flattery. Does he suffer from it to the point of it being classed as a mental disorder, no probably not, maybe it is all part of his "act" and he uses it as an attempt to cover for the fact he is just a nasty entitled ****.

Also I think his upbringing and background contribute enormously to the perception I have of him. He is alien to me, I am a working class lad from Salford, he is my polar opposite being of a rather exotic lineage and a product of a privileged education that is beyond anything I understand. It seems to be natural to him to be able to lie and he expects to get away with it, if I lie its likely my mam will call out me out for it as in my upbringing a lie is an anathema to how we perceive ourselves as honest fair minded Manchester folk.

Therefore in conclusion its my perception of him, I don't like him because he is not what I am used to, he is contrary to everything I was taught was right and proper.

I know that probably does not answer your point, but its the best I can do.

I think it was Max Hastings who said, "Anyone who thinks Boris Johnson is a nice guy, doesn't know him very well."

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Actually, having endured the Stuart Pearce era...

God almighty mate, play fair, I've only just got over the recurring nightmares of that period.

 

[Rascal]

I think it was Max Hastings who said, "Anyone who thinks Boris Johnson is a nice guy, doesn't know him very well."

Simon Heffer is equally dismissive of Johnson. I see Heffer as a quintessential Tory and he despises Johnson.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

One thing is for sure, we can all blame (or thank, depending on your perspective) one person, for this particular mess.

Had Theresa May not run such a complacent and utterly dire election campaigns in 2017, this thread would not exist.

She had a 20 point lead going into that GE,which if maintained, would have given her a majority of over 100. Yes Corbyn did much better than expected, but she was so abjectly awful, she alone managed to destroy all of that lead. Had she been even semi-competent she would have surely had a decent working majority of say 30 to 50.

And in those circumstances, her red lines might have been entirely different, and even if not and we still ended up with the same Msy withdrawal agreement, it would have been passed by now anyway.

Of course we can all blame call me Dave for starting this. But ultimately it is May's uselessness which has led us to here.

So it’s not the EU’s fault then.?
Or ours thank God.

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

One thing is for sure, we can all blame (or thank, depending on your perspective) one person, for this particular mess.

Had Theresa May not run such a complacent and utterly dire election campaigns in 2017, this thread would not exist.

She had a 20 point lead going into that GE,which if maintained, would have given her a majority of over 100. Yes Corbyn did much better than expected, but she was so abjectly awful, she alone managed to destroy all of that lead. Had she been even semi-competent she would have surely had a decent working majority of say 30 to 50.

And in those circumstances, her red lines might have been entirely different, and even if not and we still ended up with the same Msy withdrawal agreement, it would have been passed by now anyway.

Of course we can all blame call me Dave for starting this. But ultimately it is May's uselessness which has led us to here.

Personally I blame Mr Cameron Snr and his wife.

 

[blueparrot]

One thing is for sure, we can all blame (or thank, depending on your perspective) one person, for this particular mess.

Had Theresa May not run such a complacent and utterly dire election campaigns in 2017, this thread would not exist.

She had a 20 point lead going into that GE,which if maintained, would have given her a majority of over 100. Yes Corbyn did much better than expected, but she was so abjectly awful, she alone managed to destroy all of that lead. Had she been even semi-competent she would have surely had a decent working majority of say 30 to 50.

And in those circumstances, her red lines might have been entirely different, and even if not and we still ended up with the same Msy withdrawal agreement, it would have been passed by now anyway.

Of course we can all blame call me Dave for starting this. But ultimately it is May's uselessness which has led us to here.

Had she looked for cross party consensus and not started with red lines, we would have left with a deal similar to Norway months ago. Her red lines were introduced before her election from the day she said Brexit means Brexit, simply because she always hated FOM.

 

[M18CTID]

One thing is for sure, we can all blame (or thank, depending on your perspective) one person, for this particular mess.

Had Theresa May not run such a complacent and utterly dire election campaigns in 2017, this thread would not exist.

She had a 20 point lead going into that GE,which if maintained, would have given her a majority of over 100. Yes Corbyn did much better than expected, but she was so abjectly awful, she alone managed to destroy all of that lead. Had she been even semi-competent she would have surely had a decent working majority of say 30 to 50.

And in those circumstances, her red lines might have been entirely different, and even if not and we still ended up with the same Msy withdrawal agreement, it would have been passed by now anyway.

Of course we can all blame call me Dave for starting this. But ultimately it is May's uselessness which has led us to here.

Good points. I think that GE result wasn't just down to May's complacency though. As much as I don't like Corbyn, he and Labour did an infinitely better job of reaching out to to voters via social media, etc, and Corbyn spoke better in that campaign than I ever expected him to. In fact, I think I've just contradicted myself there as what I've just posted highlights the complacency you spoke of but I guess what I'm - rather clumsily - trying to say is that Corbyn and Labour perhaps deserve a bit of credit too for conducting a decent campaign.

 

[Mike D]

Johnson has a nuclear option left.

He could feasibly call a no confidence motion in himself. If he wins the no confidence in himself vote, that I think could be used as a trigger to have a GE.

As crazy as it sounds the opposition parties would have to vote they had confidence in Johnson in order to stop a GE. Now the question is, has Johnson got the bollox to call a no confidence vote in himself, it would be contrary to his character, but if he lost the vote and confidence was shown in him, he could take that as an endorsement of his Premiership and as he is a vain **** he might just do that.

We desperately need a written constitution as I don't think precedent would cover this eventuality. If you think it is confusing now, it might get a hell lot more confusing in the days to come, it depends on how desperate Johnson is to remain in power and all indicators are, he believes he was born to do the job as his inherent narcissism shows.

I know I will be derided as a Corbyn fan boy, despite me saying he is a little too right wing for me, but I have to say he has played the long game here quite superbly, he has the government on the ropes, hanging on for dear life and he can choose when to deliver the killer punch to end this fucking miserable excuse for an administration. Corbyn visibly grew in stature yesterday as Johnson shrunk into his little boy lost petulance routine. Johnson sewed the seeds for these events over the last 20 years and now his hopes and dreams are crashing down around him, it is glorious to see the **** get his comeuppance and its even better to see the miniscule Tory electorate get handed their arse on a plate for falling for the charlatan. He is succeeding in destroying the Tory party and for once I think I might even kiss him.

Some wise words there, and just shows you this is not over by any a long way. Johnson knows if the opposition succeeds in getting a GE after the 31st October he will lose badly because he has painted himself into a corner with the do or die 31st October promise.

But I agree Corbyn could have played a blinder here by keeping him in power and watching him destroy his own party whilst trying to turn it into the UK's version of the tea party is will be a delightful site to see. Here's hoping for a GE after the 31st October.