General Election - December 12th, 2019

Who will you vote for in the 2019 General Election?

  • Conservative

    Votes: 160 30.9%

  • Labour

    Votes: 230 44.4%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 59 11.4%

  • Green Party

    Votes: 13 2.5%

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 28 5.4%

  • Plaid Cymru/SNP

    Votes: 7 1.4%

  • Other

    Votes: 21 4.1%
  • Total voters
    518
Chippy_boy said:
One thing is for sure, we can all blame (or thank, depending on your perspective) one person, for this particular mess.

Had Theresa May not run such a complacent and utterly dire election campaigns in 2017, this thread would not exist.

She had a 20 point lead going into that GE,which if maintained, would have given her a majority of over 100. Yes Corbyn did much better than expected, but she was so abjectly awful, she alone managed to destroy all of that lead. Had she been even semi-competent she would have surely had a decent working majority of say 30 to 50.

And in those circumstances, her red lines might have been entirely different, and even if not and we still ended up with the same Msy withdrawal agreement, it would have been passed by now anyway.

Of course we can all blame call me Dave for starting this. But ultimately it is May's uselessness which has led us to here.
Click to expand...

I think what that reminds us is how far off and misleading the polls are and how much sentiment can firm up during an election campign. I get the impression polls just reflect what people thought previously, an aggregation of past views - they never really capture the momentum or direction of travel. May - looked at the polls and assumed that tories where on the up - they had been under Cameron and the perception was brexit would be a step in there favour. They totally failed to account for the fact that people were moving on to consider what type of brexit and labour voters who voted leave were not going to automatically default to wanting a hard line tory brexit and tories who voted remain were not going to do anything to help her. It is the latter that will kill the tories, the moderate rationale one nation tories who might have been on the fence with brexit in 2016 but really don't like no deal and will be pretty horified with recent events will abandon ship. That luke warm support that May got in 2017 from many in her own party will be ice cold for BoJo.
 
Chippy_boy said:
One thing is for sure, we can all blame (or thank, depending on your perspective) one person, for this particular mess.

Had Theresa May not run such a complacent and utterly dire election campaigns in 2017, this thread would not exist.

She had a 20 point lead going into that GE,which if maintained, would have given her a majority of over 100. Yes Corbyn did much better than expected, but she was so abjectly awful, she alone managed to destroy all of that lead. Had she been even semi-competent she would have surely had a decent working majority of say 30 to 50.

And in those circumstances, her red lines might have been entirely different, and even if not and we still ended up with the same Msy withdrawal agreement, it would have been passed by now anyway.

Of course we can all blame call me Dave for starting this. But ultimately it is May's uselessness which has led us to here.
Click to expand...

There are a number of factors which got us into this mess, one of which is Johnsons contributions to the Telegraph from Brussels where he lied about much of what the EU was doing, hence we got the bendy banana stories and the like, then we had the Farage phenomenen, how on earth a man who was not even an MP was allowed so much airtime to spout his bile is beyond me and there is Cameron and Osborne who sought to save their own skins by holding the referendum in the first place. May got the poison chalice and did her best but it was never enough for the ERG nutters and Johnson riding to the rescue has turned the whole charade into a farce.

I still believe holding the referendum was a huge mistake, it was then made worse by it being so unclear in its purpose and without a mandate threshold that could not be disputed. Say 50% of the overall electorate + 1 vote, that failure and the arrogance of Cameron and Osborne in believing they would win has led us to where we are now.

If we were to leave i would have preferred it to be by Parliamentary means, there was no need to hold a referendum and the dangers of handing sovereignty to the people would have been averted. All the referendum achieved has been division and it has made our country a nasty vicious place to live and allowed extremism on both sides a voice.

Then we have this mysterious notion of the will of the people, it was the will of the people to leave but also the will of the people to vote for a parliament that is remain. Which will of the people holds more weight? We live in a Parliamentary democracy so that will of the people must surely take precedent because if it does not it delegitimises Parliament. This is why I hold Cameron and Osborne responsible, they never gave it true forethought because in their arrogance they truly believed they would win and never contemplated the effects of losing. Its no wonder they disappeared quickly because they knew they had fucked up big time.
 
Mike D said:
Some wise words there, and just shows you this is not over by any a long way. Johnson knows if the opposition succeeds in getting a GE after the 31st October he will lose badly because he has painted himself into a corner with the do or die 31st October promise.

But I agree Corbyn could have played a blinder here by keeping him in power and watching him destroy his own party whilst trying to turn it into the UK's version of the tea party is will be a delightful site to see. Here's hoping for a GE after the 31st October.
Click to expand...

The prospective timetable is starting to look disastrous for BoJo.

The prorogation that he called for also now works against him - as the perception will be he is doing nothing.

He is set up to fail between now and Oct 31st withonly an extra long conference season to come where Lib Dems will be surging, Labour looking good (although still there own brexit issues to deal with) and tories in turmoil.

A queens speech that will be emabressing for BoJo and the Queen as we all know it is pointless as there is an election round the corner that will render it a total waste of time. A farce of the highest order.

Then BoJo compelled to do what he doesnt want to do and fail on his single issue mission. I still can't see how this plays out - does he resign and appoint a successor to avoid the optics of seeking and agreeing the extension?

Then ultimatley he will lose a confidence motion and we get a GE before Christmas. The hard core brexiteers will be frothing at the mouth but that is not enough to win him an election.
 
Chippy_boy said:
One thing is for sure, we can all blame (or thank, depending on your perspective) one person, for this particular mess.

Had Theresa May not run such a complacent and utterly dire election campaigns in 2017, this thread would not exist.

She had a 20 point lead going into that GE,which if maintained, would have given her a majority of over 100. Yes Corbyn did much better than expected, but she was so abjectly awful, she alone managed to destroy all of that lead. Had she been even semi-competent she would have surely had a decent working majority of say 30 to 50.

And in those circumstances, her red lines might have been entirely different, and even if not and we still ended up with the same Msy withdrawal agreement, it would have been passed by now anyway.

Of course we can all blame call me Dave for starting this. But ultimately it is May's uselessness which has led us to here.
Click to expand...
Thanks God she did, that's all I can say.
 
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