George Floyd murder / Derek Chauvin guilty of murder

[DrBlueBob]

Yes, what that often requires is the participation of the suspect. When the suspect complies ( even when the officer is overtly overaggressive) like the idiots both in the Trump video and the one who drop kicked the innocent black man. If the suspect surrenders even as he is being wronged, the likelihood of a calm end is almost guaranteed.

Compliance is the key. It should be taught everywhere to everyone in America.

I read that they spent three hours defusing the situation. I imagine the outcome of many instances would be different had that level of care been afforded to others.

You carry on blaming the victims though Dax..

 

[Dax777]

I read that they spent three hours defusing the situation. I imagine the outcome of many instances would be different had that level of care been afforded to others.

1. Fair enough, I didn't read the inside story.

You carry on blaming the victims though Dax..

Nope, I'm imploring suspects to not become victims by being compliant.

I mean let's even suppose for a second that it's true, as BLM and friends believe, that cops, especially the white ones are all racist and can't wait for an excuse to shoot a black man.

The best Defense that any black man, or any man for that matter, can have against a racist cop or a general dick looking for an excuse to shoot, is to simply comply.

Compliance makes it so hard for any cop, even the racist ones, to carry out their "evil genius' plan of finding an excuse. So why would you think it objectionable that compliance is the key.

 

[Damocles]

Let me ask you, Dam, if the US Black community are in 'uproar' collectively speaking, of this 'differential treatment', would you say they're making shit up...??

Multi faceted question.

Firstly, I dont believe such a thing as "the US black community" even exists. Its a total non-sequitur like all identity politics is. People aren't defined by the colour of their skin and are certainly not any form of a bloc that holds a single opinion. There's plenty of black people who think the opposite of what you're implying. "What white people think" is a stupid idea, same with black people.

Secondly, even if such a group did exist then them thinking something doesn't make that a reality. Many far right people believe there is a Jewish conspiracy to control and erase white societies. Is that correct because some "bloc" or classification think it? Of course not. Popularity is not reality, especially in a world where there's about 10 sources of primary information in the world that mainly inform people.

Moving to what seems like the crux of the question - you seem to be asking if the United States is institutionally racist. Of course the United States is institutionally racist. It has been a country built on racial and identity politics since its inception and thats even apart from the general Western world racism.

But many of these people being highlighted in the media aren't being killed because they are black. They are killed because they fucked with a Police force that is so panicky and anxious that they draw guns like they're toys, or in some cases because they're criminals and dumbasses. Arguably the biggest thing that draws victims together is that they're almost always poor.
Then again, cops should probably be more on guard in poor areas because there's more chance of them getting killed there than in the Hamptons.

You see that's the thing. Societal issues arent a tweet or a slogan, they're complicated with many layers of history and human behaviour wrapped on top of them which politicians attempt to strip away in order to create a swell in a voting base. I'd say that people on the more further fringes of the political spectrum are being manipulated more now than they have ever been at any point in modern history. Conflict is good for the media, its good for politicians and its good for industries that are orthogonal to those such as social media so it will continue unabated in any form it can muster.

This isnt super relevant but if you want to know what I REALLY think is a huge problem, its the fact that now in everybody's quest to be a Disney type hero protagonist in the story of their life then they're just inventing antagonists and running with it but that's for another thread.

So part yes and part no

 

[DrBlueBob]

1. Fair enough, I didn't read the inside story.



Nope, I'm imploring suspects to not become victims by being compliant.

I mean let's even suppose for a second that it's true, as BLM and friends believe, that cops, especially the white ones are all racist and can't wait for an excuse to shoot a black man.

The best Defense that any black man, or any man for that matter, can have against a racist cop or a general dick looking for an excuse to shoot, is to simply comply.

Compliance makes it so hard for any cop, even the racist ones, to carry out their "evil genius' plan of finding an excuse. So why would you think it objectionable that compliance is the key.

I don't find that notion objectionable, and I think that you know that. I am, however wishing that the same level of care by those in power is affordable to everyone. If the officers arresting George Floyd had taken the necessary time to effect a safe arrest then I believe the outcome would be very different.

 

[Damocles]

I don't find that notion objectionable, and I think that you know that. I am, however wishing that the same level of care by those in power is affordable to everyone. If the officers arresting George Floyd had taken the necessary time to effect a safe arrest then I believe the outcome would be very different.

If there's one thing that I wish I knew more about here, its how Police in the US are trained to talk people down.

I've got a couple of working PCs in my friend group and their views about thos stuff are generally sympathy for the US Police as a whole because they have the goalkeeper problem of mistakes, but more prominently how badly trained the officers have to be in order to not be able to build rapport and deescalate situations.

Now I'm not if this is because the US are badly trained in this area (I noticed Biden called for on site psychologists which raised the question of training to me again) or whether they are classic rooty tooty bang bang cowboys.

I'd also like to know whether there are any federal standards of police training and how these are determined as a curriculum if existing.

I have more questions than answers over then US police but my Police buddies seem to believe that its a training issue primarily, and they're pretty pissed off because its hurting Police relations and community cohesion over here too thanks to the cultural dominance of the US

 

[DrBlueBob]

If there's one thing that I wish I knew more about here, its how Police in the US are trained to talk people down.

I've got a couple of working PCs in my friend group and their views about thos stuff are generally sympathy for the US Police as a whole because they have the goalkeeper problem of mistakes, but more prominently how badly trained the officers have to be in order to not be able to build rapport and deescalate situations.

Now I'm not if this is because the US are badly trained in this area (I noticed Biden called for on site psychologists which raised the question of training to me again) or whether they are classic rooty tooty bang bang cowboys.

I'd also like to know whether there are any federal standards of police training and how these are determined as a curriculum if existing.

I have more questions than answers over then US police but my Police buddies seem to believe that its a training issue primarily, and they're pretty pissed off because its hurting Police relations and community cohesion over here too thanks to the cultural dominance of the US

From what I know about you I will extrapolate that your friends in the police are not the bang bang rooty tooty cowboys, (I liked that so much I had to use it) but I strongly suspect there is a small but obviously visible part of the US (and probably over here also) police that do share those views and whilst I understand your stance on using YouTube videos as proof of anything I doubt you will deny that much of the recent footage, be it against blacks or being nice to whites, it doesn't look great.

My personal belief, and this only really borne out by my my own limited observations is that a lot more training is required. However, again, in my opinion, there is a lot more reeducation required as well to understand how better to interact with different social strata, by this I mean the way police are equipped to deal with poor and disenfranchised because let's face it there does seem to be a major issue here.

 

[Silva_Spell]

Only a fool equates the shooting itself.

I'm equating the speed of prosecution and 'guilt' of a Black officer in an alleyway against none against any White officers for the murder of someone in their own home. But you don't want to think about that as it doesn't work with your bullshit.

Your race-baiting is ridiculous.
It's not "black officer" vs "white officer", it's "startled officer" vs "shot officer"

 

[Silva_Spell]

[...]

Moving to what seems like the crux of the question - you seem to be asking if the United States is institutionally racist. Of course the United States is institutionally racist. It has been a country built on racial and identity politics since its inception and thats even apart from the general Western world racism. [...]

What makes you think the US is institutionally racist today?

 

[Bigga]

Your race-baiting is ridiculous.
It's not "black officer" vs "white officer", it's "startled officer" vs "shot officer"

Oh the 'shot' officer that had a .9mm as well as Walker that was omitted from the the AG's speech about the non-homicide charges? The speech that omitted the ballistics not matching Walker's gun?

You mean the AG that has until today to release the transcript/ recording of what was said to the Grand Jury as per the complaint from one of the Jurors who claimed they were told different information in order to make their decision??

Nothing systemic about suppression of evidence to skew results about a certain demographic when it suits. Yes, I know Daniel Cameron is Black, wheeled out to make this decision to the world, but he's pretty much ostracised in the community now.

The charge and conviction of Noor highlights an issue when other officers have gotten away with shooting people in the back/ shooting people complying/ choking people in daylight and claiming 'fear for life'. Mostly Black, it seems as we don't really see enough footage from White counterparts to judge.

But let's see what the Breonna Taylor Grand Jury recording reveals, shall we?

Good.

 

[Decc66]

Oh the 'shot' officer that had a .9mm as well as Walker that was omitted from the the AG's speech about the non-homicide charges? The speech that omitted the ballistics not matching Walker's gun?

You mean the AG that has until today to release the transcript/ recording of what was said to the Grand Jury as per the complaint from one of the Jurors who claimed they were told different information in order to make their decision??

Nothing systemic about suppression of evidence to skew results about a certain demographic when it suits. Yes, I know Daniel Cameron is Black, wheeled out to make this decision to the world, but he's pretty much ostracised in the community now.

The charge and conviction of Noor highlights an issue when other officers have gotten away with shooting people in the back/ shooting people complying/ choking people in daylight and claiming 'fear for life'. Mostly Black, it seems as we don't really see enough footage from White counterparts to judge.

But let's see what the Breonna Taylor Grand Jury recording reveals, shall we?

Good.

Not the smoking gun you were desperately hoping for then?