Germany v Scotland - Fri 14th June, 20:00 | Euro 2024 Group A

[stonerblue]

Was a bit pissed off that Robertson didn't take the perfect opportunity to smash Rudiger about 20 minutes in.

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

25 years back makes that the year 2000. I’m talking about those players and others Dalgliesh et al. Since 1998 we never qualified for anything until two years ago, for the reason, we produce fuck all world class players, Not one.

None of the above qualified from the group stages of a major final.
Add on Dalglish,Souness,Strachan,Jordan and the likes.
Dalglish never turned up bar the odd game in three world cup finals.

I do understand your points. But it's very hard for a country the size of Scotland to produce a national team with more than, say, two genuinely world class players in it. (From 1950 to 2000 the population was pretty steady at 5 million, it's gone up somewhat since then). That actually seems to me to be normal. Initially, that left me puzzled about the performance of the Netherlands. On looking it up, though, it turns out that they've had a hugely bigger population than Scotland right through the twentieth century (I knew it was bigger, of course, just not by that much). Population, of course, does not explain everything. Otherwise, the general uselessness of India and China in world football would be puzzling. But there's much more to it, as we know.
If anything, the real head scratcher, you could argue, is England. Not a single trophy since the one they hosted, now well over half a century ago. And only once in a final. Far larger population, tens of thousands of kids playing football every weekend throughout the land.
No, but I was really talking not about the national team, but about the influence of Scottish players in the English league. Whether the old First Division, or the first decade of the Premier League. It seems to me that every top club, for decades, had at least one or two important Scottish players in it. Players who had a real influence on the team. Or is this an illusion on my part?

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

Was a bit pissed off that Robertson didn't take the perfect opportunity to smash Rudiger about 20 minutes in.

Ideally, I'd like them to have both head—butted each other…

 

[Magicpole]

I do understand your points. But it's very hard for a country the size of Scotland to produce a national team with more than, say, two genuinely world class players in it. (From 1950 to 2000 the population was pretty steady at 5 million, it's gone up somewhat since then). That actually seems to me to be normal. Initially, that left me puzzled about the performance of the Netherlands. On looking it up, though, it turns out that they've had a hugely bigger population than Scotland right through the twentieth century (I knew it was bigger, of course, just not by that much). Population, of course, does not explain everything. Otherwise, the general uselessness of India and China in world football would be puzzling. But there's much more to it, as we know.
If anything, the real head scratcher, you could argue, is England. Not a single trophy since the one they hosted, now well over half a century ago. And only once in a final. Far larger population, tens of thousands of kids playing football every weekend throughout the land.
No, but I was really talking not about the national team, but about the influence of Scottish players in the English league. Whether the old First Division, or the first decade of the Premier League. It seems to me that every top club, for decades, had at least one or two important Scottish players in it. Players who had a real influence on the team. Or is this an illusion on my part?

Good post. No we did have players who would be pivotal for the best English teams. Now we have McGinn. I totally agree having a large population isn’t a guarantee of success, but it does help if your pool of youngsters playing is large. Great players are naturally gifted, so I don’t blame the coaches, they get the best out of them, but the best isn’t anywhere near good enough to compete.

We have been talking about this for decades. Is it kids have more choices and football has slipped? Possibly. To me though, those kids would never be players anyway, if you’re good at football as a kid, you love it. You want to play. I keep hoping for better players coming through.

This hope, I must confess, is a distance behind my “most likely to come true” hope, that Emily Blunt realises she’s made an arse of it with her film star husband, John Krasinky and we fuck fuck off to an island paradise, living off her Movie Star cash.

 

[stuart_kennedy_tache]

I do understand your points. But it's very hard for a country the size of Scotland to produce a national team with more than, say, two genuinely world class players in it. (From 1950 to 2000 the population was pretty steady at 5 million, it's gone up somewhat since then). That actually seems to me to be normal. Initially, that left me puzzled about the performance of the Netherlands. On looking it up, though, it turns out that they've had a hugely bigger population than Scotland right through the twentieth century (I knew it was bigger, of course, just not by that much). Population, of course, does not explain everything. Otherwise, the general uselessness of India and China in world football would be puzzling. But there's much more to it, as we know.
If anything, the real head scratcher, you could argue, is England. Not a single trophy since the one they hosted, now well over half a century ago. And only once in a final. Far larger population, tens of thousands of kids playing football every weekend throughout the land.
No, but I was really talking not about the national team, but about the influence of Scottish players in the English league. Whether the old First Division, or the first decade of the Premier League. It seems to me that every top club, for decades, had at least one or two important Scottish players in it. Players who had a real influence on the team. Or is this an illusion on my part?

I think this dates from the 1980’s. In Scotland there was a big teachers’ strike, so at the start did thet did a work to rule which meant after school classes on football stopped. Kids were not getting taught the basic skills of football at an early age. After the strike those after school classes basically never resumed. In addition, you never see kids playing football on the streets anymore because of the obvious traffic. I am 63 years old, and when I was a kid you played football with your mates with a small tennis ball on the streets, park, playgrounds, etc. it learned you to hone your ball skills. Never see that nowadays. Teachers gave up coaching so that was taken over by competitive dads, etc “ Get stuck in son!”. To me the demise of a Scottish football began from this.

Also the Scottish domestic football is fucking awful league with Celtic/ Rangers very big fish with larger resources, in a very shallow puddle. The sooner they fuck off to somewhere else the sooner Scottish football flourishes again.

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

Good post. No we did have players who would be pivotal for the best English teams. Now we have McGinn. I totally agree having a large population isn’t a guarantee of success, but it does help if your pool of youngsters playing is large. Great players are naturally gifted, so I don’t blame the coaches, they get the best out of them, but the best isn’t anywhere near good enough to compete.

We have been talking about this for decades. Is it kids have more choices and football has slipped? Possibly. To me though, those kids would never be players anyway, if you’re good at football as a kid, you love it. You want to play. I keep hoping for better players coming through.

This hope, I must confess, is a distance behind my “most likely to come true” hope, that Emily Blunt realises she’s made an arse of it with her film star husband, John Krasinky and we fuck fuck off to an island paradise, living off her Movie Star cash.

I don't know whether there's a limited analogy with the West Indies in cricket? For absolutely years the Windies were a major power, producting world-level players from what was, really, a tiny population. I remember watching them in test cricket and being more excited by them than by just about anyone else It is a very, very long time since that has been the case (some success in the limited overs forms, but not much really). It is a real puzzle.
Young West Indians were crazy about cricket. I'm told that that is no longer the case. They've switched to football, or, with the proximity of the United States, American sports.
Maybe young Scots don't care much about football (or at least, playing it), any more?

 

[Magicpole]

I think this dates from the 1980’s. In Scotland there was a big teachers’ strike, so at the start did thet did a work to rule which meant after school classes on football stopped. Kids were not getting taught the basic skills of football at an early age. After the strike those after school classes basically never resumed. In addition, you never see kids playing football on the streets anymore because of the obvious traffic. I am 63 years old, and when I was a kid you played football with your mates with a small tennis ball on the streets, park, playgrounds, etc. it learned you to hone your ball skills. Never see that nowadays. Teachers gave up coaching so that was taken over by competitive dads, etc “ Get stuck in son!”. To me the demise of a Scottish football began from this.

Also the Scottish domestic football is fucking awful league with Celtic/ Rangers very big fish with larger resources, in a very shallow puddle. The sooner they fuck off to somewhere else the sooner Scottish football flourishes again.

No **** would have us. And I don’t blame them.

 

[Crooked_rain]

Even with a reduced pool, you would hope at least one emerged in the last twenty years. We are actually defying the Laws of Physics and the very fabric of spacetime itself. I’m just happy Einstein isn’t with us anymore.

Do you reckon the grass roots football in Scotland is nowhere near up to standard and fallen behind?

I think the coaching level in England has gone up, plenty of good young players now who are technically as good on the ball as anyone out there, as we see with players like Foden. Of course there was great players in the past, but I think the general quality right through the league has gone up in terms of technical ability and I think that coaching is filtering down to young players.

Maybe the overall standard of Scottish football has fallen behind others and it filters down to all levels and age groups.

England is filled with good clubs all over the country within a reasonable distance of kids. If you're a talented player from the North West, you might end up with an opportunity to be coached by City, the rags or dippers from a young age. A kid in the Midlands can get picked up by a couple of premier league clubs, same in London where theres a handful of good clubs. North East you have Newcastle, or even boro or Sunderland who are better than most Scottish teams to be fair. The list goes on.

I think it's much more difficult for a kid in the back arse of nowhere in Scotland to get that level of coaching from a young age when there's two decent clubs in one city and maybe apart from a couple of others, it's basically league one level clubs.

 

[Magicpole]

The evidence of our grassroots failure is shown by what it produces. I say about us that wee provide the players for the Dundee’s of this world. We haven’t had an Academy player holding down a jersey since Tierney. Before him, Charlie Nicholas. That’s how bad we are. Your point about being located outwith big towns and cities is valid. I still think talent wouid rise no matter where it emerges. It just isn’t happening. You have more chance making our first team if you come from a smaller clubs academy, Ours is criminally under achieving.

 

[Betterdeedthan red]

Yeah they look far better than the Germany that England beat in the last euros.

I know they only beat the sweaty socks but you can see they look a proper side. Decent depth to the squad too.

Can't read too much into beating a just above amateur standard team.
But very impressed with Germany.