Germany's far right

[blueinsa]

So Germany kept its borders open with few restrictions for 1.4 million refugees from Syria et al, and now has a problem with a rising far right movement.

Well golly gee willickers, who could have foreseen such a shocking event?

It’s the ignorance to facts like this that astounds me.

 

[blueonblue]

This ‘closed’ attitude is also reflected in other East European nations and to some extent it is unrealistic to expect these Eastern European countries to make up for the lost decades under Soviet rule and to have the same attitudes as the Western European nations. How Europe evolves with these two contrasting identities - liberal and social democrat vs very conservative and intolerant is going to be interesting to say the least.

Was it any more realistic to open the gates to large numbers of migrants from countries who most certainly dont have the same attitudes as the western European nations, it was the liberal and social democrats (The left) who pushed tolerance out of the window as they attacked and de platformed any discussion of the glaringly obvious problems with the clash between a western tolerant society an one who opposes most of it.

The world has not suddenly filled with shaven headed right wing thugs, but an awful lot of people are saying enough of this stupidity to the left in the only way they have remaining.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

its not exactly a surprise with far right or far left parties growing. you have mainstream parties that dont listen to or represent the people anymore. you have a policy of letting in unchecked 1M + refugees. what did they expect would happen ?

 

[BobKowalski]

Yet a majority of Germans think they could accommodate more refugees. So again when you say listen to the people are they not just doing that? And didn’t Merkel who took the decision win re-election?

Do you perhaps mean they should just listen to the people who happen to be advocating hostility towards refugees?

 

[blueinsa]

Yet a majority of Germans think they could accommodate more refugees. So again when you say listen to the people are they not just doing that? And didn’t Merkel who took the decision win re-election?

Do you perhaps mean they should just listen to the people who happen to be advocating hostility towards refugees?

Can you back that claim up with a verifiable source?

 

[blueinsa]

Getting on for nearly 2 hours and so far @BobKowalski doesn't seem able to back his claim up?

 

[blueonblue]

Do you perhaps mean they should just listen to the people who happen to be advocating hostility towards refugees?

Bit rich coming from a bloke who wants to ignore a majority for brexit saying they should listen to the minority for remain, and why is it the "Unrealistic" expectation of the eastern states to integrate are not applicable when it comes to migrants with far more differences and outright intolerance to western values exactly ?, if its causing problems would it not make sense to stop and rethink rather than blunder on.

Not that I believe there is a majority view in Germany or other countries for further migration, imposing policies the people dont agree with can only end in a shit storm.

 

[inchy14]

Those who say we should accommodate more refuges, in any country, usually aren’t the ones living in the areas where they’ll be accommodated.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Bit rich coming from a bloke who wants to ignore a majority for brexit saying they should listen to the minority for remain, and why is it the "Unrealistic" expectation of the eastern states to integrate are not applicable when it comes to migrants with far more differences and outright intolerance to western values exactly ?, if its causing problems would it not make sense to stop and rethink rather than blunder on.

Not that I believe there is a majority view in Germany or other countries for further migration, imposing policies the people dont agree with can only end in a shit storm.

Happy to be proved wrong, but I'd be very surprised if there is a majority in Germany for more inward migration.

 

[Damocles]

Those who say we should accommodate more refuges, in any country, usually aren’t the ones living in the areas where they’ll be accommodated.

It's the hypocrisy that winds me up.

Western European and Conservative Islamic values are not the same. On many subjects they are diametrically opposed to each other.

When two cultures mix, there's no such thing as cultural domination where one culture "beats out" another one. That's a pretty silly notion; what happens instead is that a new third culture emerges that is agreeable to both ends. So when the Normans invaded, they didn't route out the Saxon culture which in itself didn't displace the Celtic culture; instead the Celts became Anglo-Saxon and the Anglo-Saxons became what we understand now to be English. You can't unbake a cultural cake. This shouldn't be a controversial idea.

Think of it like gravity though - if a single comet tries to pass near the Earth then both the comet and the Earth attract each other by gravity. Everything has gravity, all things attract each other no matter how immeasurably small that effect may be. The Earth is actually much more massive than the comet so the Earth attracts the comet a lot and the comet attracts the Earth to it only an extremely small amount. No problems there. The comet generally falls to Earth harmlessly integrating into the rock layer that we already have here.

However, make the comet something a bit bigger but still much smaller than the Earth. How about The Moon? If the Moon were to fly-by the Earth then it wouldn't harmlessly drift into our atmosphere. There would be an almightly gravitational struggle where the Earth was knocked off its orbit slightly which would have consequences on our whole way of life. The Moon would in turn be pulled into Earth which would end up with it smashing into us and destroying itself entirely.

This is why immigration numbers matter from countries which have extremely different values to us. Immigration is perfectly fine and in fact desirable. We need exposure to other ways of life, other ways of thinking, we need labour in many fields, we need invention from our Universities and we need to work hard to make that a reality and immigrants to feel that this is their home. Too much immigration can wreck whole societies though as just a ton of historical examples show - ask the Native Americans or Africans what they believe about different cultures sharing their land and how their culture was affected.

People often say that that is cultural supremacy. They're absolutely right that it is - by almost every moral metric possible, I believe that Western European culture is superior to Conservative Islamic culture. It's not like I have a handy league table somewhere and we can sit ranking different cultures because such an exercise would be ridiculous but so is the other extreme to that that all cultures are equally moral, equally fair to its citizens, equally just, and equally mobile socially. And just like two cosmological bodies that move towards each other, if you dump a ton of immigrants from Conservative Islamic backgrounds all in the same place then our two cultures meet in the middle there. And I don't want to meet in the middle with the Conservative Islamic culture because I think it's the wrong direction for our society to move in.