Germany's far right

[blueinsa]

It's the hypocrisy that winds me up.

Western European and Conservative Islamic values are not the same. On many subjects they are diametrically opposed to each other.

When two cultures mix, there's no such thing as cultural domination where one culture "beats out" another one. That's a pretty silly notion; what happens instead is that a new third culture emerges that is agreeable to both ends. So when the Normans invaded, they didn't route out the Saxon culture which in itself didn't displace the Celtic culture; instead the Celts became Anglo-Saxon and the Anglo-Saxons became what we understand now to be English. You can't unbake a cultural cake. This shouldn't be a controversial idea.

Think of it like gravity though - if a single comet tries to pass near the Earth then both the comet and the Earth attract each other by gravity. Everything has gravity, all things attract each other no matter how immeasurably small that effect may be. The Earth is actually much more massive than the comet so the Earth attracts the comet a lot and the comet attracts the Earth to it only an extremely small amount. No problems there. The comet generally falls to Earth harmlessly integrating into the rock layer that we already have here.

However, make the comet something a bit bigger but still much smaller than the Earth. How about The Moon? If the Moon were to fly-by the Earth then it wouldn't harmlessly drift into our atmosphere. There would be an almightly gravitational struggle where the Earth was knocked off its orbit slightly which would have consequences on our whole way of life. The Moon would in turn be pulled into Earth which would end up with it smashing into us and destroying itself entirely.

This is why immigration numbers matter from countries which have extremely different values to us. Immigration is perfectly fine and in fact desirable. We need exposure to other ways of life, other ways of thinking, we need labour in many fields, we need invention from our Universities and we need to work hard to make that a reality and immigrants to feel that this is their home. Too much immigration can wreck whole societies though as just a ton of historical examples show - ask the Native Americans or Africans what they believe about different cultures sharing their land and how their culture was affected.

People often say that that is cultural supremacy. They're absolutely right that it is - by almost every moral metric possible, I believe that Western European culture is superior to Conservative Islamic culture. It's not like I have a handy league table somewhere and we can sit ranking different cultures because such an exercise would be ridiculous but so is the other extreme to that that all cultures are equally moral, equally fair to its citizens, equally just, and equally mobile socially. And just like two cosmological bodies that move towards each other, if you dump a ton of immigrants from Conservative Islamic backgrounds all in the same place then our two cultures meet in the middle there. And I don't want to meet in the middle with the Conservative Islamic culture because I think it's the wrong direction for our society to move in.

Superb post yet again.

 

[2sheikhs]

Those who say we should accommodate more refuges, in any country, usually aren’t the ones living in the areas where they’ll be accommodated.

Are you suggesting that Lily Allen wouldn’t welcome thousands of refugees in her little all white hamlet in the Cotswolds?

 

[BobKowalski]

Getting on for nearly 2 hours and so far @BobKowalski doesn't seem able to back his claim up?

Bob has a life. It’s a nice day and all that.

It was a recent poll which regionalised the debate. In West Germany 60% felt they could take in more migrants. In East Germany it was 48%. Acceptance overall edged it. My point is that there is more than ‘one voice of the people’ and that like all politicians Merkel has to balance both. It is interesting that in the upcoming Bavarian elections the CSU in its attempt over the last few months to cosy up to the more extreme right wing on migration has been losing rural Lutheran voters to the Greens making the Greens second in the polls. I understand that Soeder the CSU leader has changed tack slightly and is now attacking the AfD on law and order.

 

[blueinsa]

Bob has a life. It’s a nice day and all that.

Of course you do and you ignoring this whilst posting elsewhere despite having a life and all that is some feat.

Care to post some links to this poll because im struggling to find anything whatsoever that supports your claims?

 

[BobKowalski]

Of course you do and you ignoring this whilst posting elsewhere despite having a life and all that is some feat.

Either engage in debate with some degree of civility or fuck off. Your choice.

 

[blueinsa]

Either engage in debate with some degree of civility or fuck off. Your choice.

So debate then.

Back up your claim?

 

[blueonblue]

It was a recent poll which regionalised the debate. In West Germany 60% felt they could take in more migrants. In East Germany it was 48%. Acceptance overall edged it

You being a bit naughty there bob ?,

A majority of Germans have for the first time said the country cannot take in any more refugees, according to a recent survey.

A study by the Bertelsmann Foundation found that a vast majority of Germans still say immigrants and refugees are "very welcome, or quite welcome."

But the number of people who felt Germany had reached the point where it could no longer take in refugees had risen to 54 per cent, up from just 40 per cent in 2015.

"Many feel that the maximum limit has been reached," said the report, "The readiness to take in more refugees has significantly fallen."

It does conclude with a regional breakdown that shows a different level of acceptance between east and west Germany, but that does not change the main conclusions

 

[oldtimerdiscopants]

The term far right has lost all meaning as has the term far left. The way I see it is that there are and always have been people on both sides of the political spectrum the only difference between days of yore and now is that the indoctrination propaganda is easier to get to vulnerable people through the media. In essence Corbyn isn't Pol Pot and the Tory party are not marching on Poland, not wanting your country overtaken by a culture that is at odds with your own values isn't racism and it isn't Nazism.

It's scary that people would even think that.

 

[purplenose]

I am afraid to say that religions by and large dont mix to well. History shows this very clearly. The huge influx of Muslims to Western Europe was always going to cause massive problems.

The rise of the far right was inevitable as a result and both this and the muslim influx have gone way way too far to not end quite catastrophically for the continent of Europe including us. All whilst this has been happening the political class buried their heads in the sand for reasons of personal short term gain and self preservation. Emerging only occasionally to silence anyone who dare suggest all might not end as well as vast swathes of the gullible public are being lead to believe. Such questions have been answered only with accusations of racism and of far right sympathies.

Sadly this foolishness has left us now facing the kind of shit storm and blood letting that millions and millions of fools have been duped into believing those things dont happen now a days and not in Europe and certainly not Britain.

I give it ten years max before parts of Europe start going up in flames.

 

[BobKowalski]

You being a bit naughty there bob ?,

A majority of Germans have for the first time said the country cannot take in any more refugees, according to a recent survey.

A study by the Bertelsmann Foundation found that a vast majority of Germans still say immigrants and refugees are "very welcome, or quite welcome."

But the number of people who felt Germany had reached the point where it could no longer take in refugees had risen to 54 per cent, up from just 40 per cent in 2015.

"Many feel that the maximum limit has been reached," said the report, "The readiness to take in more refugees has significantly fallen."

It does conclude with a regional breakdown that shows a different level of acceptance between east and west Germany, but that does not change the main conclusions

No. It was a ‘PolitBarometer’ survey on 14/9 exploring the acceptance of refugees and it highlighted the difference between West and East. 62% in the West and 43% in the East. I did say 60% and 48% in my original post which may have skewed my math as it’s 43% in the East.

My calculation was that it just edged overall into acceptance. I don’t know when the survey you quote was done but I’ll take your figure if it proves to have edged the other way. It’s somewhat moot as Merkel doesn’t have the political capital to do it on the scale she did previously.

And yes there is a big difference in attitude between West and East which is the point I was making. It’s not surprising given that the East was a closed culture for decades. There is also an East German resentment towards the West to factor in which was explained to me as ‘West Germans look down on us and don’t really accept us but welcome all these foreign migrants’.

In terms of where Germans actually stand based on actual elections these take place in Bavaria in a months time.