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God
- Thread starter BlueMoonie
- Start date
Damocles said:Saying that there is no God is as much a leap of faith as saying that there is. The only real answer is that we have no evidence either way to suggest a true theory.
spot on, that is why i ask for proof off those who come on here saying it/he/she exists
of course none have yet proved existence, but i'm waiting, you never know
Bigga
Well-Known Member
Damocles said:I have pretty strong views on theism and am highly scientific, as some may have already read.
However, empirical science is the way in which we choose to define our reality with the differences between facts and myth. Those presenting an argument that a belief in a God-like figrue is akin to a belief in fairies are just plain wrong.
Theoretical physics, especially that pertaining to space, is full of theories based on very little evidence. Black holes, for example, were never really observed until recently yet they were predicted by various models of the laws of the universe. A lot of phenomena that we take for granted as 'true' is stuff that is predicted but cannot be observed. Dark matter is a particularly annoying thing that is pretty recent and in my opinion, seems to be based more around necessity to fit a system rather than observational evidence.
Anyway, my point of this, is that none of us can really comprehend the Universe as it is. The signs point to a single point in space that started the Big Bang effect, but the recent discovery that the Universe's expansion is actually speeding up has thrown a few doubts into the model.
Even if you personally believe the Big Bang/dark matter model, this still doesn't answer the fundamental question of how the moment of creation came to be. Saying that there is no God is as much a leap of faith as saying that there is. The only real answer is that we have no evidence either way to suggest a true theory.
LOL!!!!!
Oh fooking yes!!
Damo, I'm not religious, per say and I'm not dismissive of science. I'm VERY open minded about both and have believe for the longest time that they both have a role to play with each other.
I digress, though, as your above post is something I've been arguing with Elanjo for the longest. I just gave up, in the end!
I once said to him that his brand of science is JUST as fantastical as the dismissive views of religion he projects. We rowed for ages.
It's nice to have a view, similar to mine, coming from another direction!!
BimboBob said:Bigga said:"Sensible"??
What the fook does that mean?
I find this condescending attitude the main problem with 'atheists'. They think they know something more than others, when that is simply not true. As proven with Einstein, some of the greatest thinkers in the world have a view that a pro-religious, in some way.
This "sensible" attitude is a reason why I cannot find a decent non-believer to have discussions with.
Have to agree with you Bigga. Nothing is ever cut and dried. Nothing can be proved either way so it is all down to one mans, or womans, thoughts and ideas. If someone has a big belief in god then that's their perogative. If someone decides to follow a god then it really is their choice.
My problem with the above statement comes when people are forced into beliefs. I see a lot of people in this world like this and it makes me sad.
I wasn't trying to be condesending, the "sensible" came from I deemed it to be sensible for me!
What irritates me with the god squad is their arrogance in believibg that they are right and everyone else is misguided.
I choose not to believe, due to your over-reaction I assume that you find this in some way objectionable.
Tough!
Copurnicus was hounded as a heretic for suggesting that the solar system was heliocentric as opposed to geocentric, a fact that was later proven. This however did not dissuade the church from making his life being made a living hell.
Religion, in all its forms, is an intolerant and supremely arrogant form of social control.
I was going to keep quiet on this subject but your patronising reply has prompted me to be a little more forceful in my arguments and for that I am sorry.
Still don't worry atheists never burnt anyone at the stake for having an opposing view so thats ok!
BimboBob
Well-Known Member
It is ok making sweeping statements about Religion being a form of social control but in quite a few cases this helps matters. Like it or not the church does a hell of a lot for communities. Even in our modern world a lot of people feel like they don't belong. This what the church does well. Be it a coffee morning, food for the homeless or just someone to talk to they try and provide it.
I also don't believe in God. But i do try and open my eyes to what happens in the world rather than just keep jumping up and down shouting 'i am an atheist' over and over again.
I also don't believe in God. But i do try and open my eyes to what happens in the world rather than just keep jumping up and down shouting 'i am an atheist' over and over again.
Bigga
Well-Known Member
Bluecifer said:BimboBob said:Have to agree with you Bigga. Nothing is ever cut and dried. Nothing can be proved either way so it is all down to one mans, or womans, thoughts and ideas. If someone has a big belief in god then that's their perogative. If someone decides to follow a god then it really is their choice.
My problem with the above statement comes when people are forced into beliefs. I see a lot of people in this world like this and it makes me sad.
I wasn't trying to be condesending, the "sensible" came from I deemed it to be sensible for me!
What irritates me with the god squad is their arrogance in believibg that they are right and everyone else is misguided.
I choose not to believe, due to your over-reaction I assume that you find this in some way objectionable.
Tough!
Copurnicus was hounded as a heretic for suggesting that the solar system was heliocentric as opposed to geocentric, a fact that was later proven. This however did not dissuade the church from making his life being made a living hell.
Religion, in all its forms, is an intolerant and supremely arrogant form of social control.
I was going to keep quiet on this subject but your patronising reply has prompted me to be a little more forceful in my arguments and for that I am sorry.
Still don't worry atheists never burnt anyone at the stake for having an opposing view so thats ok!
The 'over-reaction' is yours to solely own!!
I am not part of the 'God squad' as you seem to think. Indeed, I think some of them should be put in the dock, for us to question!
IF you've bothered reading on past the response to your "sensible" post, you will be that I've said that science and religious belief can work in tandem.
Put your dummy back in!
I wasn't spitting my dummy out at all!
The fact that a forum does not lend itself to this kind of discussion doesn't help really as subtle nuances tend to get lost.
I once had an absolutely fascinating discussion with a hospital padre, and due to the fact that he often worked closely with other faiths as part and parcel of his job, gave him a somewhat "universal" appreciation of the arguments for and against the various faiths...and for atheism. He made some valid points, he conceded, however, that I made some as well. The entire subject is intractable as there are arguments on both sides that are subject to that particular individuals credo, neither requiring or proffering any evidence to support the claim conclusively. Ultimately there will always be argument, and one, as an intellectual exercise I enjoy, I just think that a City forum might not be the best place to address it!
The fact that a forum does not lend itself to this kind of discussion doesn't help really as subtle nuances tend to get lost.
I once had an absolutely fascinating discussion with a hospital padre, and due to the fact that he often worked closely with other faiths as part and parcel of his job, gave him a somewhat "universal" appreciation of the arguments for and against the various faiths...and for atheism. He made some valid points, he conceded, however, that I made some as well. The entire subject is intractable as there are arguments on both sides that are subject to that particular individuals credo, neither requiring or proffering any evidence to support the claim conclusively. Ultimately there will always be argument, and one, as an intellectual exercise I enjoy, I just think that a City forum might not be the best place to address it!
Bigga
Well-Known Member
Bluecifer said:I wasn't spitting my dummy out at all!
The fact that a forum does not lend itself to this kind of discussion doesn't help really as subtle nuances tend to get lost.
I once had an absolutely fascinating discussion with a hospital padre, and due to the fact that he often worked closely with other faiths as part and parcel of his job, gave him a somewhat "universal" appreciation of the arguments for and against the various faiths...and for atheism. He made some valid points, he conceded, however, that I made some as well. The entire subject is intractable as there are arguments on both sides that are subject to that particular individuals credo, neither requiring or proffering any evidence to support the claim conclusively. Ultimately there will always be argument, and one, as an intellectual exercise I enjoy, I just think that a City forum might not be the best place to address it!
Thus Ric created "Off Topic" in 7 hours...
Bigga said:Bluecifer said:I wasn't spitting my dummy out at all!
The fact that a forum does not lend itself to this kind of discussion doesn't help really as subtle nuances tend to get lost.
I once had an absolutely fascinating discussion with a hospital padre, and due to the fact that he often worked closely with other faiths as part and parcel of his job, gave him a somewhat "universal" appreciation of the arguments for and against the various faiths...and for atheism. He made some valid points, he conceded, however, that I made some as well. The entire subject is intractable as there are arguments on both sides that are subject to that particular individuals credo, neither requiring or proffering any evidence to support the claim conclusively. Ultimately there will always be argument, and one, as an intellectual exercise I enjoy, I just think that a City forum might not be the best place to address it!
Thus Ric created "Off Topic" in 7 hours...
LOL Yeah, perhaps I should of said any forum!
Still there is none so blind....
:D