good debate - gone off track

[halpo123]

Re: A big Thanks to the Dicks Singing M****h -

So what you're now saying is that you've never laughed at or forwarded as text message that mocks the death of somebody famous? Do you seriously expect me to believe that?

Do you know me?

Have you ever met me?

The answer to both the above is no. So, based on that, you're in no position to say whether I have or haven't sent such texts/emails. Clearly I've received them, but you can't do anything about texts and emails people send to you.

I don't personally find death all that funny. I wasn't particularly cut up when Jade Goody died, for example, I thought she was an idiotic and repugnant person when she was alive so the fact she'd died didn't really change that, but I also didn't take any great satisfaction in her death or see it as something humorous.

Now now, there's no need to be facetious. No, I don't know you and no, I've never met you but I don't believe for one minute that you've never forwarded on an e-mail or text, or at least laughed at a joke your mates have told you mocking someone's death. If you can honestly say with your hand on your heart that you've never done any of those things in your whole life then that probably puts you in a minority of 1 person on the whole of this board.

Few people find death funny, but many people tell jokes about it - like it or not, that's the reality of the world we live in.

Of course we've all laughed at a genuinely funny joke about something that we really know in our heart of hearts we shouldn't be laughing at but that's the nature of humour. But if you can't see the difference between laughing at a joke, however black, and deliberately taunting someone else face-to-face about death then I despair.

So anyone who can't see anything wrong, then when you've got to go to the funeral of a close family member, maybe one of your grandparents or parents, then let me know and I'll come along and sing a song mocking them and letting you know that I'm glad they've died. And if you get offended then tough titty; it's a free country.

hardly the same pal you`ll find that at the time of the tragedy our whole city pulled together
Now though we`re in a different century and time should heal.Football fans are so sensitive these days
my uncle was the only brother out of 6 who supported utd at the time but couldn`t take all the self satisfying suffering the club went through so jumped ship.
Now on the whole your getting kids who weren`t even a twinkle taking the piss ,so what ,put them in the same room as bobby charlton and 99.9% wouldn`t dream of using the m word
its called football tribalism for good or bad.Do you really think the rags go home all upset crying into their pillows at this evil sleight on their loved ones ?.I doubt it very much

 

[M18CTID]

Re: A big Thanks to the Dicks Singing M****h -

So what you're now saying is that you've never laughed at or forwarded as text message that mocks the death of somebody famous? Do you seriously expect me to believe that?

Do you know me?

Have you ever met me?

The answer to both the above is no. So, based on that, you're in no position to say whether I have or haven't sent such texts/emails. Clearly I've received them, but you can't do anything about texts and emails people send to you.

I don't personally find death all that funny. I wasn't particularly cut up when Jade Goody died, for example, I thought she was an idiotic and repugnant person when she was alive so the fact she'd died didn't really change that, but I also didn't take any great satisfaction in her death or see it as something humorous.

Now now, there's no need to be facetious. No, I don't know you and no, I've never met you but I don't believe for one minute that you've never forwarded on an e-mail or text, or at least laughed at a joke your mates have told you mocking someone's death. If you can honestly say with your hand on your heart that you've never done any of those things in your whole life then that probably puts you in a minority of 1 person on the whole of this board.

Few people find death funny, but many people tell jokes about it - like it or not, that's the reality of the world we live in.

Of course we've all laughed at a genuinely funny joke about something that we really know in our heart of hearts we shouldn't be laughing at but that's the nature of humour. But if you can't see the difference between laughing at a joke, however black, and deliberately taunting someone else face-to-face about death then I despair.

So anyone who can't see anything wrong, then when you've got to go to the funeral of a close family member, maybe one of your grandparents or parents, then let me know and I'll come along and sing a song mocking them and letting you know that I'm glad they've died. And if you get offended then tough titty; it's a free country.

Prestwich, with respect I know full well what the difference is but that wasn't the point I was making. What I was saying in the post that you've quoted is that Matty has implied that he has never laughed at a joke poking fun at the dead or forwarded on a text message or e-mail that contains such jokes, and that I don't believe for one minute that he was telling the truth. If you've followed the thread you'll know exactly where I stand with regards to the M*nich chants.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: A big Thanks to the Dicks Singing M****h -

Of course we've all laughed at a genuinely funny joke about something that we really know in our heart of hearts we shouldn't be laughing at but that's the nature of humour. But if you can't see the difference between laughing at a joke, however black, and deliberately taunting someone else face-to-face about death then I despair.

So anyone who can't see anything wrong, then when you've got to go to the funeral of a close family member, maybe one of your grandparents or parents, then let me know and I'll come along and sing a song mocking them and letting you know that I'm glad they've died. And if you get offended then tough titty; it's a free country.

hardly the same pal you`ll find that at the time of the tragedy our whole city pulled together
Now though we`re in a different century and time should heal.Football fans are so sensitive these days
my uncle was the only brother out of 6 who supported utd at the time but couldn`t take all the self satisfying suffering the club went through so jumped ship.
Now on the whole your getting kids who weren`t even a twinkle taking the piss ,so what ,put them in the same room as bobby charlton and 99.9% wouldn`t dream of using the m word
its called football tribalism for good or bad.Do you really think the rags go home all upset crying into their pillows at this evil sleight on their loved ones ?.I doubt it very much

You really are of very limited intellect aren't you?

I think that most United fans would be pretty offended about anyone mocking a tragic part of their history as we get annoyed about Foe songs for example. But you don't seem to get the fact that most CITY fans are embarrassed by it as well. That's why they sing over morons like you or tell you to shut up when you start singing your pathetic songs.

And your argument that most people wouldn't bring up the subject in a room with Bobby Charlton falls down at the first fence as people sang about it at Old Trafford when he was in the stadium. Time does heal the pain of loss but it's still not an excuse to mock that loss.

I'm happy to support my club and to mock or have a laugh at supporters of others up to a point. Football tribalism allows you to get away with some things but is not a catch-all excuse to behave outside the law or beyond certain boundaries of decent human behaviour. So at Everton the other week I was happy to mock the Everton fans as a group but went out with some of them afterwards. One was my 18 year old nephew and he still doesn't quite understand where the tribalism stops. At Stoke, I sang songs about their club and fans but had a great chat to a group of them afterwards going back to the car.

Tribalism is part of the same mentality that the Nazis (and others) used to support their racist behaviour. Encourage one group of people to see another as a faceless group all sharing the same characteristics or conforming to a set of stereotypes. It's what we do as football fans - all rags are cockneys, all scousers are scrounging tea-leaves, etc. Harmless in itself but they took it a lot further and all decent people, even if they were mildly anti-semitic themselves, knew a line had been crossed but some still can't see it like that to this day.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: A big Thanks to the Dicks Singing M****h -

Of course we've all laughed at a genuinely funny joke about something that we really know in our heart of hearts we shouldn't be laughing at but that's the nature of humour. But if you can't see the difference between laughing at a joke, however black, and deliberately taunting someone else face-to-face about death then I despair.

So anyone who can't see anything wrong, then when you've got to go to the funeral of a close family member, maybe one of your grandparents or parents, then let me know and I'll come along and sing a song mocking them and letting you know that I'm glad they've died. And if you get offended then tough titty; it's a free country.

Prestwich, with respect I know full well what the difference is but that wasn't the point I was making. What I was saying in the post that you've quoted is that Matty has implied that he has never laughed at a joke poking fun at the dead or forwarded on a text message or e-mail that contains such jokes, and that I don't believe for one minute that he was telling the truth. If you've followed the thread you'll know exactly where I stand with regards to the M*nich chants.

I know what you were saying mate but it's completely irrelevant to this argument whether Matty laughs at silly jokes about death or not.

Because, as I've already said, there's no comparison.

 

[Clubber]

So what is the argument developed into, how the m***** chant upsets rag fans or how it upsets city fans or just the general morality of the Chants?

 

[M18CTID]

Re: A big Thanks to the Dicks Singing M****h -

Of course we've all laughed at a genuinely funny joke about something that we really know in our heart of hearts we shouldn't be laughing at but that's the nature of humour. But if you can't see the difference between laughing at a joke, however black, and deliberately taunting someone else face-to-face about death then I despair.

So anyone who can't see anything wrong, then when you've got to go to the funeral of a close family member, maybe one of your grandparents or parents, then let me know and I'll come along and sing a song mocking them and letting you know that I'm glad they've died. And if you get offended then tough titty; it's a free country.

Prestwich, with respect I know full well what the difference is but that wasn't the point I was making. What I was saying in the post that you've quoted is that Matty has implied that he has never laughed at a joke poking fun at the dead or forwarded on a text message or e-mail that contains such jokes, and that I don't believe for one minute that he was telling the truth. If you've followed the thread you'll know exactly where I stand with regards to the M*nich chants.

I know what you were saying mate but it's completely irrelevant to this argument whether Matty laughs at silly jokes about death or not.

Because, as I've already said, there's no comparison.

I disagree. I think there is some relevance and some comparison - obviously, I agree one isn't as bad as the other but what I was trying to convey is that there's a right way and a wrong way to tackle the issue. Pontificating about it in some self-righteous manner while painting oneself as some sort of perfect human being who has never done anything wrong in their lives (I think that's where Matty went wrong tbh) will not make any impact on those that continue to give the chants an airing. However, expressing a desire to see the chants eradicated without resorting to abusing those that do it might hit home a bit more. Then again, it might not of course.

 

[el blue]

This thread makes me want to go home and listen to whitehouse really fucking loud.

 

[Matty]

Re: A big Thanks to the Dicks Singing M****h -

Ill be honest with you, I think you talk a load of shite and after the post you made a few pages back (quoted below) I cant take anything you say seriously.

I'll be honest with you too, your opinion of me doesn't matter a fuck to me. If you're the kind of neanderthal who makes those chants then I'm quite happy to have absolutely fuck all to do with you. Jade Goody died a while back, how about popping down to her house in Essex and chanting how much of a cow she was and how you're glad she died to her kids........

I'd imagine you can't take my posts seriously because there's no-one there to explain them to you.

Its like you are saying that we are singing these songs directly to the families themselves. Thats not the case. the majority of the scum dont even know how many of them died in that crash and could hardly name three or four.

Bobby Charlton for one might disagree with you there.

 

[Dubai Blue]

I'd be interested to know the ages of those that sing it.

I used to call them 'M*nich' this and 'M*nich' that when I was a teenager. I then had an epiphony when I was about 22 and realised how pathetic and moronic it was.

I'd suggest that those of you who are still teenagers will eventually come round to the same point of view. And for those of you that are older than 25, it really is time you grew up.

 

[M18CTID]

I'd be interested to know the ages of those that sing it.

I used to call them 'M*nich' this and 'M*nich' that when I was a teenager. I then had an epiphony when I was about 22 and realised how pathetic and moronic it was.

I'd suggest that those of you who are still teenagers will eventually come round to the same point of view. And for those of you that are older than 25, it really is time you grew up.

Some of the older lot still do it, but I think the majority are young pups. Most will probably grow out of it like us - some won't though.