Happy 50th Gio

[Jack74]

I’m not denying they happened. Just all that’s left in my memory are those goals like against Southampton and Oxford. And what would have been the best of the lot at Bury. But think he got brought down for a penalty we missed.

Fair enough but you are forgetting the goal against West ham in the FA Cup ( the best of the lot ) Boro away and a fair few more and the best display by anyone in blue shirt ( I have been going since 82 ) against Newcastle 3 3. regards Bury he missed the pen well Kiely saved it , what a fucking run that was , love him .

 

[Stephen230]

Fair enough but you are forgetting the goal against West ham in the FA Cup ( the best of the lot ) Boro away and a fair few more and the best display by anyone in blue shirt ( I have been going since 82 ) against Newcastle 3 3. regards Bury he missed the pen well Kiely saved it , what a fucking run that was , love him .

Oh yeah, remember the Middlesbrough one now you jog my memory. Didn’t Juninho score a similar one in the same game that got all the headlines? 4-1 was it?

West Ham one ringing no bells unfortunately.

 

[Jack74]

Oh yeah, remember the Middlesbrough one now you jog my memory. Didn’t Juninho score a similar one in the same game that got all the headlines? 4-1 was it?

West Ham one ringing no bells unfortunately.

4-1 spot on cant remember if he did or not mate , I was leathered . West ham in the FA Cup he literally had the crowd at his mercy every time he got the ball for about half an hour scored went past a few he off the post then won the pen ( went past half the team ) Rosler missed it , Lomas then scored the winner for them within about 5 minutes .

 

[SebastianBlue]

I think we was too much of an individual. Ajax signed him from us iirc and he couldn’t fit into their system and he didn’t do that well.

One of the best dribblers I’ve ever seen.

It certainly isn’t without question.

Personally I’d guess he is the absolute polar opposite of what Guardiola is looking for in a player.

I don’t really agree.

I think he was largely limited by the lower quality players around him, which forced him to play more individually. I can remember countless times that he was clearly frustrated with lack of movement or anticipation of his runs or passes. Some of his passes that led to truly woeful misses were David/Kev quality. He was regularly one or two passes ahead of everyone else on the pitch and that shown through at nearly every level.

His time at Ajax didn’t really work out, but some of that is down to them playing him out of position and generally prioritising their youth ranks for development (which should always be something a non-Dutch, older footballer keeps in mind when joining them, as their business model is to develop youth to sell).

He was very good at Derby, even winning POTS, if I recall correctly. Then his legs began to go and—like most footballers—it was downhill from there.

I still remember his audacious run and chip against Wales. And some mazy runs and curling goals to the far post for us that rival some of Bernardo’s best. Won a few penalties, as well. Toward the end at City opposition defenders were genuinely frightened of getting near him in the penalty box.

I think in a Pep side, with actual quality around him, when he could express himself, and others would be at the same speed of thought, he would thrive. And would likely play much more collaboratively.

For me he would be similar to Sterling in his prime (2018-2020). And that worked out fairly well for us.

Of course, we’ll never actually be able to settle the debate.

 

[citymad]

Has there been anyone like him before in the English game ? Dare I say it, Giggs in his prime.. maybe ? If he could've finished some of those mazy runs he could've been compared to Maradona or Messi. Just imagine what he would've been like in this Pep team.

 

[Stephen230]

I don’t really agree.

I think he was largely limited by the lower quality players around him, which forced him to play more individually. I can remember countless times that he was clearly frustrated with lack of movement or anticipation of his runs or passes. Some of his passes that led to truly woeful misses were David/Kev quality. He was regularly one or two passes ahead of everyone else on the pitch and that shown through at nearly every level.

His time at Ajax didn’t really work out, but some of that is down to them playing him out of position and generally prioritising their youth ranks for development (which should always be something a non-Dutch, older footballer keeps in mind when joining them, as their business model is to develop youth to sell).

He was very good at Derby, even winning POTS, if I recall correctly. Then his legs began to go and—like most footballers—it was downhill from there.

I still remember his audacious run and chip against Wales. And some mazy runs and curling goals to the far post for us that rival some of Bernardo’s best. Won a few penalties, as well. Toward the end at City opposition defenders were genuinely frightened of getting near him in the penalty box.

I think in a Pep side, with actual quality around him, when he could express himself, and others would be at the same speed of thought, he would thrive. And would likely play much more collaboratively.

For me he would be similar to Sterling in his prime (2018-2020). And that worked out fairly well for us.

Of course, we’ll never actually be able to settle the debate.

It’s why I normally tend to shy away from comparing players from different eras.

If you took any of the great players of the 70s for example, and transformed them forward into a game today, they would be lost. The game is so fast and the players so much fitter that the game would just completely pass them by.

But I don’t think there’s any doubt that if those same players were magically transformed forward as kids and grew up in todays game, they would be as great now as they were then.

And the same applies to Kinkladze to a degree. With his skill and todays methods he probably would be 10 times fitter for a start. And obviously playing with better players will always positively affect your game.

The one thing about him I struggle to get away with though, when considering how good he actually was, is that he played his whole career at second rate ( at best ) clubs. You could argue that Ajax came into the category of ‘top club’ at the time. But he couldn’t get a game for them.

It’s hard to make a case that someone was a top player, when no top club was ever prepared to give him a go, for whatever reason.

 

[mattcity5]

A player of great moments, but not a great player unfortunately. Undoubtedly entertained and capable of the amazing, but also capable of just not turning up. Not helped by having the most incompetent managers in our history in charge of him obviously, and then Joe Royle who just wanted (maybe needed) a team of battlers

I try and remember the great moments, but by and large and remember his teammates not having a clue when to make a run for him, because they'd lost hope in him trying to make the pass.

Put him in a great side and we'll, it could be great, but he'd more than likely just frustrate.

Give me Benarbia over him any time. Benarbia lifted crap players around him and maybe them play better, Kinkladze just made them all look worse. Not all down to him though that obviously.

 

[SebastianBlue]

It’s why I normally tend to shy away from comparing players from different eras.

If you took any of the great players of the 70s for example, and transformed them forward into a game today, they would be lost. The game is so fast and the players so much fitter that the game would just completely pass them by.

But I don’t think there’s any doubt that if those same players were magically transformed forward as kids and grew up in todays game, they would be as great now as they were then.

And the same applies to Kinkladze to a degree. With his skill and todays methods he probably would be 10 times fitter for a start. And obviously playing with better players will always positively affect your game.

The one thing about him I struggle to get away with though, when considering how good he actually was, is that he played his whole career at second rate ( at best ) clubs. You could argue that Ajax came into the category of ‘top club’ at the time. But he couldn’t get a game for them.

It’s hard to make a case that someone was a top player, when no top club was ever prepared to give him a go, for whatever reason.

I try to avoid comparing players from different eras, as well, as can be attested by my many posts arguing it is not a particularly useful (or viable) exercise.

Hence why I was not doing so with my post. My reference to David/Kev was to highlight his talent and the mention of Sterling was to more simply relate how I think he would be in our current side, versus how he was in our quite poor side.

In any case, though, discussing how a player from the mid-to-late 90s might perform in a current top team is a substantially different them comparing a player from the 70s. There are many players from 25 years ago that would do quite well in the league now without much change for them (and exceptionally well with it).

Whereas basically any player from the 70s, barring perhaps one or two all-time greats would struggle to play in the championship today, as I have argued on more than one occasion.

The era differences are much more pronounced the further back you go, and this comparison become less viable or useful.

Perhaps Kinky would struggle far more than I believe, but I think there is a stronger case for him to do well in our current team then, say, Francis Lee, even though Franny in his pomp, in his era, obviously achieved much more and was rightly more highly regarded.

A player of great moments, but not a great player unfortunately. Undoubtedly entertained and capable of the amazing, but also capable of just not turning up. Not helped by having the most incompetent managers in our history in charge of him obviously, and then Joe Royle who just wanted (maybe needed) a team of battlers

I try and remember the great moments, but by and large and remember his teammates not having a clue when to make a run for him, because they'd lost hope in him trying to make the pass.

Put him in a great side and we'll, it could be great, but he'd more than likely just frustrate.

Give me Benarbia over him any time. Benarbia lifted crap players around him and maybe them play better, Kinkladze just made them all look worse. Not all down to him though that obviously.

I agree with a lot of this.

But, barring the bit about Joe Royal and co [shiver] this could be written about Sterling, hence my allusion to him in my OP. ;-)

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Of all the games everyone's mentioned, no-one has referenced Southend away (and, yeh, I know it was only Southend). They tried to double man mark him that night, but he turned their entire team inside out so many times I felt dizzy just watching him. He scored two, set up the 3rd and steered City into a 3-0 lead. He then got hacked out of the game and had to go off with about 10 mins to go, whereupon we promptly collapsed, conceding 2 goals and somehow just about held on to a 3-2 win. One of the best individual performances I'd ever seen from a City player. Mesmeric.....as someone once said.....

 

[Coljj]

West Ham one ringing no bells unfortunately.

It was on new years day I think and I remember jibbing it up to hospitality at the top of the Kippax and so had a great view of the goal. No memory of losing and getting knocked and by Steve Lomas of all people.