shevtheblue said:
chestervegasblue said:
Good points indeed. Excellent questions.
Biblically speaking, salvation has always been a product of the content of a person's faith. Those who believed in God would be saved. Because Christ was present at creation (not an indication that I am a world was created 4000 years ago person), his death could pay for the sins of those who died before he was on earth. Jews couldn't have faith in a man who hasn't existed yet, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't be made righteous in the eyes of the Father by the son's sacrifice. They still had to choose to have faith in God.
On the sacrifice point, it's not how he died that was the point (although it did fulfil tonnes of prophecies, partic. Psalm 22), but the fact that he was obedient to death. If he was the son of God, Jesus had unlimited power at his disposal. He could have very easily avoided the cross, but he didn't.
On your "created with sin" point: We were created with sin, but with the opportunity to sin. It's actually a massive expression of love to give someone the opportunity not to love you back.
Why would he need to sacrifice himself in the way that he did? Because Jews knew that story. It actually makes sense of God asking Abraham to kill Isaac, but all along intending to use the lamb as a sacrifice.
Hope these help a little. Going to sleep now, but I'll check back here in the morning.
The born with sin bit i really dont understand. Do you mean man is not born with sin but the opportunity to sin? Therefore a newborn has no sin and if it dies then it would go to heaven?
There are two types of sin here: inherited "original" sin and intentional sin (sin that we freely choose to make.)
I know that two wrongs can't make a right, i.e. two people who are sinners can't create something without sin, hence inherited, original sin. However, there is obviously no way that we can be held responsible for inherited sin. I believe Christ died for all sin, including original sin. I believe every child that dies receives eternal life. There is obviously a point at which we become responsible for are own actions and therefore liable to to intentional sin, which has probably been debated in numerous other threads.
I'm reassured on this issue by what Jesus came to do and what he said. For one, I can't believe that the same God who sent his only son to die so that his people (everyone) could be saved would look for technicalities (i.e. not having a developed enough mind to know him) to keep people out of heaven.
Secondly, I love this bit from Mark 10:
13 People were bringing little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” 16 And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them.
