He is Risen...

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

The older I get the more I feel religious indoctrination is a form of mental abuse.It may be well intentioned but it's abuse nonetheless imo.Cultists telling me to open my mind melt my head.IRONY?

To an extent it is. But there are some values to every religion that undeniably are missing in society today. Its just that the rest of the baggage just makes it seem pointless.

But to be fair you don't need religion for a moral blueprint - most of us know that killing,lying and stealing are wrong without the bible,or any other religious doctrinal book telling us,and the one about coveting your neighbour's ox just shows how relevant that book is nowadays.
Religious folk know that killing is wrong through the 10 commandments,but it has never stopped them killing others for believing in a different imaginary friend.

 

[chestervegasblue]

The born with sin bit i really dont understand. Do you mean man is not born with sin but the opportunity to sin? Therefore a newborn has no sin and if it dies then it would go to heaven?

There are two types of sin here: inherited "original" sin and intentional sin (sin that we freely choose to make.)

I know that two wrongs can't make a right, i.e. two people who are sinners can't create something without sin, hence inherited, original sin. However, there is obviously no way that we can be held responsible for inherited sin. I believe Christ died for all sin, including original sin. I believe every child that dies receives eternal life. There is obviously a point at which we become responsible for are own actions and therefore liable to to intentional sin, which has probably been debated in numerous other threads.

I'm reassured on this issue by what Jesus came to do and what he said. For one, I can't believe that the same God who sent his only son to die so that his people (everyone) could be saved would look for technicalities (i.e. not having a developed enough mind to know him) to keep people out of heaven.

Secondly, I love this bit from Mark 10:

13 People were bringing little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” 16 And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them.

Thanks makes a bit more sense but i suppose its open to interpretation.
So how come we are not all seen as gods children? In christianity it seems like man belongs to jesus more than they do to god? Of god makes us all, the surely Jesus is not gods only son?

You're welcome, and you're right; we are all adopted children of God, the Father and creator. Jesus is the Father's only begotten son, his literal earthly offspring. Christians identify themselves as belonging to Jesus because they can only belong to the Father through him, as on the cross he traded every person's sin for his righteousness. Without that, Christians can't belong to the Father.

 

[shevtheblue]

The older I get the more I feel religious indoctrination is a form of mental abuse.It may be well intentioned but it's abuse nonetheless imo.Cultists telling me to open my mind melt my head.IRONY?

To an extent it is. But there are some values to every religion that undeniably are missing in society today. Its just that the rest of the baggage just makes it seem pointless.

But to be fair you don't need religion for a moral blueprint - most of us know that killing,lying and stealing are wrong without the bible,or any other religious doctrinal book telling us,and the one about coveting your neighbour's ox just shows how relevant that book is nowadays.
Religious folk know that killing is wrong through the 10 commandments,but it has never stopped them killing others for believing in a different imaginary friend.

Yes but are those morals apparent in society now? Im not saying religion is the cure for that, fuck no, just that mixing values into some order to follow isnt such a bad idea if you take the best things from each religion.

 

[Ammy]

There are two types of sin here: inherited "original" sin and intentional sin (sin that we freely choose to make.)

I know that two wrongs can't make a right, i.e. two people who are sinners can't create something without sin, hence inherited, original sin. However, there is obviously no way that we can be held responsible for inherited sin. I believe Christ died for all sin, including original sin. I believe every child that dies receives eternal life. There is obviously a point at which we become responsible for are own actions and therefore liable to to intentional sin, which has probably been debated in numerous other threads.

I'm reassured on this issue by what Jesus came to do and what he said. For one, I can't believe that the same God who sent his only son to die so that his people (everyone) could be saved would look for technicalities (i.e. not having a developed enough mind to know him) to keep people out of heaven.

Secondly, I love this bit from Mark 10:

13 People were bringing little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” 16 And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them.

Thanks makes a bit more sense but i suppose its open to interpretation.
So how come we are not all seen as gods children? In christianity it seems like man belongs to jesus more than they do to god? Of god makes us all, the surely Jesus is not gods only son?

You're welcome, and you're right; we are all adopted children of God, the Father and creator. Jesus is the Father's only begotten son, his literal earthly offspring. Christians identify themselves as belonging to Jesus because they can only belong to the Father through him, as on the cross he traded every person's sin for his righteousness. Without that, Christians can't belong to the Father.

*Disclaimer* - this of course does not apply to you if you are gay or female...

 

[shevtheblue]

There are two types of sin here: inherited "original" sin and intentional sin (sin that we freely choose to make.)

I know that two wrongs can't make a right, i.e. two people who are sinners can't create something without sin, hence inherited, original sin. However, there is obviously no way that we can be held responsible for inherited sin. I believe Christ died for all sin, including original sin. I believe every child that dies receives eternal life. There is obviously a point at which we become responsible for are own actions and therefore liable to to intentional sin, which has probably been debated in numerous other threads.

I'm reassured on this issue by what Jesus came to do and what he said. For one, I can't believe that the same God who sent his only son to die so that his people (everyone) could be saved would look for technicalities (i.e. not having a developed enough mind to know him) to keep people out of heaven.

Secondly, I love this bit from Mark 10:

13 People were bringing little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” 16 And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them.

Thanks makes a bit more sense but i suppose its open to interpretation.
So how come we are not all seen as gods children? In christianity it seems like man belongs to jesus more than they do to god? Of god makes us all, the surely Jesus is not gods only son?

You're welcome, and you're right; we are all adopted children of God, the Father and creator. Jesus is the Father's only begotten son, his literal earthly offspring. Christians identify themselves as belonging to Jesus because they can only belong to the Father through him, as on the cross he traded every person's sin for his righteousness. Without that, Christians can't belong to the Father.

How are we adopted to God if we are created by Him though? And how is Jesus the only literal son? Science has shown a lot of cases of immaculate conceptions, so surely they are also begotten children?

 

[chestervegasblue]

The older I get the more I feel religious indoctrination is a form of mental abuse.It may be well intentioned but it's abuse nonetheless imo.Cultists telling me to open my mind melt my head.IRONY?

To an extent it is. But there are some values to every religion that undeniably are missing in society today. Its just that the rest of the baggage just makes it seem pointless.

But to be fair you don't need religion for a moral blueprint - most of us know that killing,lying and stealing are wrong without the bible,or any other religious doctrinal book telling us,and the one about coveting your neighbour's ox just shows how relevant that book is nowadays.
Religious folk know that killing is wrong through the 10 commandments,but it has never stopped them killing others for believing in a different imaginary friend.

I'm not sure that's true. It may appear that now we don't need it for a moral blueprint, but we are a product of a history (as you rightly recognise in your third point) that clearly did.

If you take away the cultural "ox" reference from your second point, I'd argue it's entirely relevant to the present day. Loosely interpreted, we're told not to be envious of the possessions of those around us. In a society obsessed with consumerism (which clearly is unfulfilling otherwise it wouldn't exist), I think it's a very appropriate message.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Thanks makes a bit more sense but i suppose its open to interpretation.
So how come we are not all seen as gods children? In christianity it seems like man belongs to jesus more than they do to god? Of god makes us all, the surely Jesus is not gods only son?

You're welcome, and you're right; we are all adopted children of God, the Father and creator. Jesus is the Father's only begotten son, his literal earthly offspring. Christians identify themselves as belonging to Jesus because they can only belong to the Father through him, as on the cross he traded every person's sin for his righteousness. Without that, Christians can't belong to the Father.

*Disclaimer* - this of course does not apply to you if you are gay or female...

...or those of a different faith,because they are hell bound too.
Which basically excludes most of the world from a cosy afterlife.
I think that the two virtues I most admire about Christianity are their amazing tolerance and inclusivity.

 

[shevtheblue]

You're welcome, and you're right; we are all adopted children of God, the Father and creator. Jesus is the Father's only begotten son, his literal earthly offspring. Christians identify themselves as belonging to Jesus because they can only belong to the Father through him, as on the cross he traded every person's sin for his righteousness. Without that, Christians can't belong to the Father.

*Disclaimer* - this of course does not apply to you if you are gay or female...

...or those of a different faith,because they are hell bound too.
Which basically excludes most of the world from a cosy afterlife.
I think that the two virtues I most admire about Christianity are their amazing tolerance and inclusivity.

Didnt glenn hoddle say the disabled would go to hell, or something?

 

[paphos-mcfc]

25 pages already. I'll give this thread a bump when it's Easter over here next month.

2 Easters, who would have thought? We can't even remember what day he died on. And as for the piss stained cloth with the face of the great Lord, should be renamed the Urine Shroud, because that's what it is.

 

[chestervegasblue]

Thanks makes a bit more sense but i suppose its open to interpretation.
So how come we are not all seen as gods children? In christianity it seems like man belongs to jesus more than they do to god? Of god makes us all, the surely Jesus is not gods only son?

You're welcome, and you're right; we are all adopted children of God, the Father and creator. Jesus is the Father's only begotten son, his literal earthly offspring. Christians identify themselves as belonging to Jesus because they can only belong to the Father through him, as on the cross he traded every person's sin for his righteousness. Without that, Christians can't belong to the Father.

How are we adopted to God if we are created by Him though? And how is Jesus the only literal son? Science has shown a lot of cases of immaculate conceptions, so surely they are also begotten children?

I believe God created the process of conception and pregnancy, he's empowered humans to be the re-creators through it. I'd be interested to read about these other examples of human immaculate conception, do you have a link?<br /><br />-- Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:07 am --<br /><br />

Thanks makes a bit more sense but i suppose its open to interpretation.
So how come we are not all seen as gods children? In christianity it seems like man belongs to jesus more than they do to god? Of god makes us all, the surely Jesus is not gods only son?

You're welcome, and you're right; we are all adopted children of God, the Father and creator. Jesus is the Father's only begotten son, his literal earthly offspring. Christians identify themselves as belonging to Jesus because they can only belong to the Father through him, as on the cross he traded every person's sin for his righteousness. Without that, Christians can't belong to the Father.

*Disclaimer* - this of course does not apply to you if you are gay or female...

I disagree with you there.