Hillsborough verdicts reached

[Ric]

Glad justice has finally been served. Must be a huge relief to the families after all this time. Anyone who attended football matches in the 80s will know how easily it could've been them.

 

[Robinho's Subbuteo]

So what happens now?

 

[FanchesterCity]

Was it the fans fault? I try to imagine if it had been another club with similar amount of passion / excitement / etc in the 80s such as geordies or Leeds or whoever (leaving city out to keep it non-personal) and SYP and the FA and SWFC had behaved the same, would there have been a similar result.
Yes, fans pushing to get in, no tickets, looking to climb the wall, jump the turnstiles, but a lot of clubs would have been same, maybe not as much. We all went to games in the 70s and 80s where we can look back now and wonder how some of us weren't crushed to death or got trampled.

If you were in charge, supposed to be capable and experienced in managing big games, with a duty of care to everybody in the ground and those trying to get into the ground, and saw thousands desperate to get inside a stand that was already packed in the middle, wouldn't it be your fault if you couldn't imagine the charge of the crowd if you open the gates. And then to not direct fans to the outside pens. And to then not tell the guys managing the area between turnstiles and stand that you were opening the gates. And to then follow the official "Not my fault" storyline.

And somehow video was lost.
Hard to charge those responsible without enough hard evidence.
Doubt we'll see anybody in charge brought to justice. Maybe a few sacrificial juniors for doctoring notebooks and losing evidence.

Duckenfield lied minutes after the extent of the disaster was known. He maintained the lie for quite some time. For me, that's the biggest factor of all.
It was a 'mistake' ultimately - Duckenfield made the wrong choice (one that many of us might have made on that day), but in doing so, it exposed a number of other factors that ultimately led to disaster. The turnstile throughput was woefully shot, signage was poor, the assumption of 'self leveling pens was false etc etc.
As horrific as that mistake (opening the exit gate) turned out to be - the cover up dwarfs it.

 

[scouseredinpeace]

I've been asking myself this question over the last hour or so, and I'm going to raise this not to be inflammatory or be a troll but to be objective...is turning up without tickets not "a behaviour"

Hi there, can you have a read of this document please (so that I don't have to repeat it all). http://hfdinfo.com/digital/
Turn to page 17 which has the section on ticketless fans and the findings from the HSE.
Thanks

 

[dennishasdoneit]

You have to be so careful on this subject - someone will come on and say none or very few fans did not have tickets.

This would make it a very rare occasion when a club famous for jibbing in did not do so. I have worked on Turnstiles at Maine Road after the Hillsboro game and more "doubled up" when Liverpool came than any other team I worked on.

If the verdict had said .01% of the blame was from the fans but this would have been the same for any well supported club with passionate fans it would have been more believable to me. The overriding factor was that shit stand and poor control by the Police. I cannot believe Wednesday have not knocked it down by the way!

very good point about the stand not being knocked down mate.
shame on sheff wed for carrying on taking the cash(as they did on the day of the disaster when they knew the ground had no safety certificate-oh well it was only football fanimals that died)
when City next went there ,after the disaster, can,t remember the year, i was in the lower bit in a seat..still remember the awful feeling of being sat in that section behind the goal,on the leppings lane terrace.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

They were just footie fans with their mates drunk and excited . I have been to away matches drunk and excited . I have even been to games without a ticket had a great time before the game and then nipped in a pub watched it and then met people outside to celebrate. How that can lead to people dying its just wrong. It just reflects society's attitude to football and working class people at that time and a cover up. The Liverpool fans were enjoying a cup semi final at an unfit ground with poor planning and attitudes of the establishment. God bless them.

However a note of caution. A few years ago I went to the Liverpool city semi ( the dodgy Micah penalty). There was a crash on the m62 the game was not postponed to allow city fans to get to ground to kick off. It kicked off. We were then sandwiched and crushed in the little street outside the ground trying to get in. It was awful and scary and the police attitude towards us was disgusting that evening. The vast majority of city fans did not get in until 25 minutes after kick off.

Even now the authorities attitude towards football fans is disgusting here and abroad. It would not happen at Twickers........

 

[Monkfish]

personally feel a bit ashamed that I went a lot of years believing the establishment line that the fans were to blame, and even more ashamed that football rivalry probably played a fair share it making it easy for the establishment to hoodwink me. Sure I'm not alone in this but it makes me a fuckwit all the same

whilst I can accept some of the actions at the time - in some way everyone was a victim of the times and the 'way it was' the cover-up that has followed is pretty unforgivable

well done to those who battled for all those years to get to this stage, I could not have done it

 

[BlueKingEll]

I've been asking myself this question over the last hour or so, and I'm going to raise this not to be inflammatory or be a troll but to be objective...is turning up without tickets not "a behaviour"

Its a bit of a minefield but Yes - but proving who in the crowd had or didn't have a ticket is impossible and I'm guessing those stepping forward saying sorry, I attempted to gain entry without a ticket is a very small list. However you can say not stopping them before the turnstiles, opening the gates to let them in and not managing them inside the ground did increase the pressure in that central pen

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Its a bit of a minefield but Yes - but proving who in the crowd had or didn't have a ticket is impossible and I'm guessing those stepping forward saying sorry, I attempted to gain entry without a ticket is a very small list. However you can say not stopping them before the turnstiles, opening the gates to let them in and not managing them inside the ground did increase the pressure in that central pen

Guys how many Glasgow Rangers fans turned up without tickets in Manchester - I reckon 500000. If you go to away European games you will see a lot of blues go but don't have tickets for the game . A lot will be in Madrid.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

There is nothing wrong in not having a ticket. It should not cause deaths.