Homeless people/addiction.

It's not self inflicted anymore than someone resorting to self treating any illness could inflict on themselves some other damage. Left without medical services to treat an open wound, plenty of people would end up with infections.

This man was left alone to treat one illness and ended up making things worse.

Also, what's the point of "MASSIVE AND GROWING"?

You seem to be surprised that as our understanding of mental health improves, we're more able to diagnose illnesses?

Would you be surprised to know that our list of cancers and autoimmune diseases are also "MASSIVE AND GROWING"?
The precipitating “illness” is illusory.

He CREATED one by his own actions. Self harm creates many real, identifiable and treatable illnesses.

Hey, if you want to create mental illness out of thin air, knock yourself out. But, all I see (from the info originally provided) is a bloke drowning his sorrows, letting it get out of hand and affecting his financial health, too.

You guys pay for his upkeep. No skin off my nose if you want to live in and support the Nanny State. Sounds like it’s working out just dandy!
 
This is the part of your post that shows your misunderstanding of the situation at hand. You can choose to be sympathetic or you can choose to tell this (now dead) person to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, that's up to you, but you at least have to understand what you're responding to first.

Your sentiment appears to be "He turned to alcohol, that was when his life went downhill", which is fair enough. But you speak as though this person was only ever going to turn to alcohol and had a level of rational control over his circumstances. The point is that it just happened to be alcohol that filled the hole. The problem for this bloke wasn't the alcohol, the problem was the hole. If it wasn't alcohol then it would have been something else. Smoking, gambling, drugs, etc. The hole is loneliness, shame, a lack of purpose. Without purpose, without something to call their own and maintain, human beings turn to destructive vices.

This poor bloke, whoever he was, was dead the moment he ended up lonely. Loneliness is the hole, loneliness is the killer. It's great for you that you clearly don't have such a hole in your life but when there's fuck all to live for and nothing to ease the pain, you do whatever you can to get out of your own head for a while.
So, which part was wrong?

Loneliness is the hole. Got it. You ever been lonely? Clearly not, because you’re still alive.

Loneliness is NOT a mental illness or a death sentence, it’s an integral, surmountable, usually temporary fact of life. It is the British disease to soak pain in alcohol and hope for the best. THAT is the identifiable disease that spiraled for him and was totally self inflicted and avoidable. He CHOSE IT!
 
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Yep yet we nothing about the poor human rights in America. Slightly of topic
Only slightly off topic America has an appalling homeless situation people permanently living on the street. I don’t know to much about it but really hope we are not heading the same way.
In America they talk about trillions of dollars earning vast sums of money but still can’t help poor people living in a trailer or tent park, we don’t have the weather for living off the street in Britain
 
The W.H.O. definition:

A mental disorder is characterized by a clinically significant disturbance in an individual's cognition, emotional regulation, or behaviour. It is usually associated with distress or impairment in important areas of functioning.

If you're going to rely upon the World Health Organisation, you're going to be disappointed.

There's a reason that in the WHO's official International Classication of Diseases, all addictions are in the mental disorders bracket, along with depression and all the mental illnesses you deem worthy of the name.
 
The precipitating “illness” is illusory.
Depression is illusory?! Is that real opinion, in 2022?

if you want to create mental illness out of thin air, knock yourself out. But, all I see (from the info originally provided) is a bloke drowning his sorrows


And everyone with a shred of empathy sees how a man became depressed, self medicated with alcohol because he didn’t get proper treatment for his depression and probably lacked the education to realise the dangers of doing so, fell into addiction and lost his life.

It’s not come out of thin air.
 
I think it's important to recognise each individual case in it's own entirety. What works for some people won't work for others for many reasons. I used to work with people and would hear their story, and wonder why their family was not enough motivation to turn their lives around. To lose a parent through substance misuse is harrowing and can affect you many years later.
Most people I found it could just be a case of lots of positive affirmations and building up their self esteem. Just talking to someone who is non judgemental can be life changing. Men especially are brought up to see showing emotions as a sign of weakness. We need to change that and put proper resources into mental health services.
 
So, which part was wrong?

Loneliness is the hole. Got it. You ever been lonely? Clearly not, because you’re still alive.

Loneliness is NOT a mental illness or a death sentence, it’s an integral, surmountable, usually temporary fact of life. It is the British disease to soak pain in alcohol and hope for the best. THAT is the identifiable disease that spiraled for him and was totally self inflicted and avoidable. He CHOSE IT!

I’m done.
You know, I actually feel sorry for people like you, who seem to think that shunning empathy at every opportunity makes them more enlightened than everybody else around them. I get it, we're the stupid, naive ones being taken for a ride by the sob stories of the meek. The Reaper's scythe is remorseless and we can either get on board with it or suffer the consequences. You can do it (whatever it is), so why can't everyone else? Yada yada.

You say you've spent time around the mentally ill but clearly you've learnt very little from your experiences.

There's space for nuance here, bud. Mental illness isn't a blanket death sentence and neither is loneliness, no, but you know as well as I do that they significantly decrease a person's chances of survival. Some people are capable of helping themselves, but other people (for whatever reason) really aren't. The mentally unwell either recognise that there's a piece missing and seek to find that piece, or they call off the search before it's begun.

It really is a coin toss.

Alcohol was this poor bloke's vice and it played a part in his death, yes. But like I said, if it wasn't alcohol then it would have been something else. And yet you say he "chose" alcohol as though he'd already seen the end of his own story and still "chose" to go down the same path. Nobody who turns to alcohol to fill the void thinks it's going to kill them - it acts as a temporary reprieve until it's a permanent state.

Have you ever actually studied addiction? Do you know it's an auto-neurological disorder? The brain takes over from our conscience and works against the interests of the rest of the body. It says that long-term damage to the rest of the body is a necessary sacrifice for the brain to seek out constant short-term joy. Some people are capable of realising this and reversing the effects on their own, some people need help, and some people never realise.

If overcoming addiction and loneliness was as simple as you make it sound then it wouldn't happen so often, but it does. And it's not because all of those people are weaklings with "self-inflicted" illnesses. It's because of a range of factors that are circumstantial and neurological in nature, and everybody's factors are completely different from the next person. A person can change their own factors, but others aren't so fortunate.

The best way to think about it is to compare everything to school. 30 kids - they all go to the same school, they all have the same lessons, they all have the same teacher, they all sit in the same classroom, and they all get taught the same syllabus. And yet, they all perform differently, they all go to different colleges and get different jobs, and as they grow up they all become very different people with very different lives.

I expect you'll now come back with some more right-wing libertarian bollocks about how it's every man for himself in this dog-eat-dog world and that the animalistic "survival of the fittest" rule is something we need to apply to every day human beings. But think on.
 
I think it's important to recognise each individual case in it's own entirety. What works for some people won't work for others for many reasons. I used to work with people and would hear their story, and wonder why their family was not enough motivation to turn their lives around. To lose a parent through substance misuse is harrowing and can affect you many years later.
Most people I found it could just be a case of lots of positive affirmations and building up their self esteem. Just talking to someone who is non judgemental can be life changing. Men especially are brought up to see showing emotions as a sign of weakness. We need to change that and put proper resources into mental health services.

Agree I wont go into to much detail but I had a shit 6 or 7 years. In which I lost both parents, marriage break up and redundancy ( 22 yes same place ).

I didn t a typical British thing and just thought through it.

But when i found happiness again with a beautiful wife i felt safe again. That's when i went down hill, i couldn't work it out.
A therapist told me that now that I feel safe in life I am letting out years of holding it all in.

I am now in a great place but I strongly believe I got lucky.

Our mental health in this country is great and getting to see a doctor is getting more or less impossible
 
Every night?

Errrrrr….billions of people who don’t wallow in self-pity?

All of a sudden, it becomes depression brought on by mental illness, so (conveniently) he just can’t help himself?

I’m sure I’ll get the wrath of BM for this, but what a sob story!

Show some backbone, get on with LIFE, and find yourself someone else, somewhere else, and do yourself a favor!

⁰I’m sorry it ended in tragedy, but whodathunkit, eh?! Became a self-fulfilling prophecy once it became “well, who WOULDN’T go to the pub every night to drown their sorrows?” and that became OK!

It’s not!

Get a grip, stand up, be the master of your own ship.

Now, if you’d started with “this fella was a manic depressive and had a drinking problem, so his wife left him for another bloke,” I might have felt like “If only he’d got some help, maybe he could have managed his illness,” but it sounds all so self-absorbed!
Wow! You're posting some right selfish and insensitive shite CB.

I can imagine you as a Samaritan blurting out - "Show some backbone, get on with LIFE, and find yourself someone else, somewhere else, and do yourself a favor!"

Have you any idea how crass on hearing that to someone on the brink of committing suicide? That could be enough(for some) to hang up and top themself!

You're right in that too many use mental health as a crutch nowadays but when someone has no hope and will to live they need help and support, pal. And i speak from experience of hitting rock bottom and contemplating suicide. I was a badly functioning alcoholic holding down a professional job but life meant nothing to me at that particular time. If it wasn't for having good family and friends I wouldn't be here now. And that poor guy isn't here, sadly.

I sincerely hope you keep your sanity CB because it's judge-mentalists (like you) who think they're mentally strong and infallible, they think "it'll never happen to me". It can and does.

Don't mock the afflicted, as they say ...
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