Honestly who is/was better?

[Gareth Barry Manilow]

Frank my point is 1 thing , is Messi the best player in the world I agree he is , why cause he can dribble past 10 players and score if any1 wants 2 say its cause of his application work rate , passing r wrong its cause with the ball at his feet he is best player in the world and just 4 what it is worth the best player ever , now do u really think Silva can beat half a team and score in a premier league game ?

MCFC OK

Messi also scores more than 40 goals a season, that's why he's the best player in the world.

 

[Jack74]

Frank my point is 1 thing , is Messi the best player in the world I agree he is , why cause he can dribble past 10 players and score if any1 wants 2 say its cause of his application work rate , passing r wrong its cause with the ball at his feet he is best player in the world and just 4 what it is worth the best player ever , now do u really think Silva can beat half a team and score in a premier league game ?

MCFC OK

Messi also scores more than 40 goals a season, that's why he's the best player in the world.

And Gio scored 7 in his 1st season granted he played immel , symonds clough creaney and buster all top draw players unlike Silva 1 goal and 1 of his backside makes 2 granted he had 2 play with dross like kompamy ( best centre half in the prem ) and top midfielders barry yaya de jong oh and millner and then the league best player last year the ugly argie up front

 

[Frank H]

Frank my point is 1 thing , is Messi the best player in the world I agree he is , why cause he can dribble past 10 players and score if any1 wants 2 say its cause of his application work rate , passing r wrong its cause with the ball at his feet he is best player in the world and just 4 what it is worth the best player ever , now do u really think Silva can beat half a team and score in a premier league game ?

MCFC OK

Actually Messi dribbling past 10 players, or even "half a team", and then scoring, is not that common an event. And rightly so - in many situations the correct thing to do is to pass rather than to dribble.

If you are looking purely for dribbling show-ponies then CRonaldo and Neymar are possibly the best in the world at the moment.

[Incidentally, by "Frank", I realise you are referring to "Ol' blue eyes" rather than myself!]

 

[franksinatra]

There seems no way of putting this truly futile "debate" to death, and there has this day been another attempt to start yet another thread on this, which seems to have been ended by the moderators.

Whatever the rights and the wrongs of the issue, it seems to be the pro-Kinkladze faction who continually start this up.

We dont know that as the guy who started the thread never expressed an opinion

Contrary to the assertion of a more reasonable and balanced member of the faction, there have been many assertions that Kinkladze was more skilful, perhaps much more skilful, than Silva, and certainly much better to watch. It is not true that the only demeaning comments have been about Kinkladze, there have been plenty about Silva - either directly or by inference.


The thread was aimed at comparing the two, I preferred to watch Kinkladze its not a reflection in any way on Silva, just an appreciation of Kinkladze. I also prefer watching Silva over De jong thats not demeaning in anyway to De jong

But why bother about Silva? I know of Kinkladze largely from the assertions in this forum. From these I learn that Kinkladze was at least as skilful as Messi, Maradona, CRonaldo etc.etc., if not more so.

Ive never seen a player with the grace, close control and ability to beat players like Kinkladze and to me in this aspect of his game he is worthy of comparison with the Messi's Maradona's. Yet there were limitations to his play and and Kinkladze supports have stated this, not seen anyone say Kinkladze is as good a goal scorer as messi.

In fact he must go down in history as the most remarkable footballer ever in the history not just of Man.City but of football in England, Europe, and the World, if not in "Life,the Universe etc.etc."

99% of fans have stated Silva is better on this thread, including myself who adores Kinkladze as a footballer, your just twisting statements or using one or two comments to beat Kinkladze supporters with. Its childish.

He is remarkable in that he is either the most underrated footballer ever, and by a long way - or that he the greatest underachiever.

Probably the greatest underachiever, but for one or two years for the club I support he shone brightly.Let's compare Kinkladze not with Messi, Maradona etc, let alone the vastly inferior Silva.

Let's compare him instead with his Georgian compatriot and contemporary, Shota Arveladze. Although he never played in the EPL, Arveladze's overall record was much better than Kinkladze. He has been described as the best Georgian player by Georgian professional footballers.

If Kinkladze had the talent of Messi, Maradona etc., what might Arveladze have possessed?

Exactly he underachieved, thats a universally accepted opinion. Still he was an incredible player. Joey Barton will probably end up having a more successful career, but without question never had half the talent.

As one of the most balanced and reasonable of the pro-Kinkladze faction, I don't think you have acknowledged enough the absurdities of some of your co-factionists. Some of them clearly don't think much of Silva ("only 2 goals in a season etc", as if Silva's main function was as a striker). And to talk as if Kinky were of a general level as Messi etc. is simply absurd. I suspect that very few Georgians would agree - my point conc. Arveladze was not entirely serious, but isn't entirely humorous.

I have no axe to grind pro- or anti-Kinkladze. It might be that when looked at in greater detail and with hindsight, his career might have been a sad case of being largely in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or it might have been mental problems - as another poster seems to suggest - although that seems conjecture, and in any case is not an excuse for underachievement (witness Paul Gascoigne - for one).

But my main gripe is really the futility of this sort of "debate". That doesn't mean that, purely for fun, there shouldn't be threads like this from time to time, but the frequency of Kinkladze vs Silva threads, as with the pro-Dzeko threads/posts, suggests a lack of "balance" in the football appreciation of some fans.

(And given a choice between watching a great passer and a great dribbler, I would personally prefer the former - that's a personal preference, as is yours for the latter)

I do agree with the futility of the debate, with regards who was better Silva or Kinkladze. My take on it has been to compare the respective merits of the individual player because as I would admit without question is Silva is the all round better player.

I must admit I havent picked up on criticisms of Silva, whether this is due to selective eyesight I dont know. I like to think of myself as neither pro-silva or Kinkladze, I just appreciate two great footballers, and my support of Kinkladze doesnt reflect that I think he is better just that I dont understand the criticism.

Your right to compare Messi and Kinkladze at a general level is ridiculous but where the water gets muddy is the fact that Kinkladze had one ability to match anyone in the world (dribbling) and so comparisons are made. Whenever I watch Messi I think of Kinkadze, not because they are in my opinion the two best in the world per se. Just that they share a unique talent few footballers possess. Even a staunch Kinkladze fan wouldnt expect him to contribute 50 goals a season like messi, its just that one skill set that draws comparison.

 

[Frank H]

Frank my point is 1 thing , is Messi the best player in the world I agree he is , why cause he can dribble past 10 players and score if any1 wants 2 say its cause of his application work rate , passing r wrong its cause with the ball at his feet he is best player in the world and just 4 what it is worth the best player ever , now do u really think Silva can beat half a team and score in a premier league game ?

MCFC OK

Messi also scores more than 40 goals a season, that's why he's the best player in the world.

And Gio scored 7 in his 1st season granted he played immel , symonds clough creaney and buster all top draw players unlike Silva 1 goal and 1 of his backside makes 2 granted he had 2 play with dross like kompamy ( best centre half in the prem ) and top midfielders barry yaya de jong oh and millner and then the league best player last year the ugly argie up front

And some claim that no pro-Kinkladze posters criticise or denigrate Silva!!!

 

[Jack74]

Goodnight all the best

MCFC OK

 

[franksinatra]

Frank my point is 1 thing , is Messi the best player in the world I agree he is , why cause he can dribble past 10 players and score if any1 wants 2 say its cause of his application work rate , passing r wrong its cause with the ball at his feet he is best player in the world and just 4 what it is worth the best player ever , now do u really think Silva can beat half a team and score in a premier league game ?

MCFC OK

Sorry mate Im completely with you now. I think you view the game similar to me. Its always been the players who can beat players who stand out, the players with that unique ability others dont possess.

Your correct Messi is the best because of that attribute, or should I say thats the key ingredient. For me the best and my favourites are the players who can beat opponents as along with goal scoring those in my eyes are the two most difficult skills

 

[BlueSkyAtNight]

Silva is the better player, but to me as a young lad allowed to go to the football with his mates Kinkladze was god. At the time I had never seen football like it when he got the ball, at least not with my own eyes. My memories of him, because they're amongst my earliest memories of going to games, are some of the very best footballing memories I have.

Sometimes it's not about the effect the player has on a team or on a game but the effect he can have on his fans. And I for one will never forget the way Kinky decorated my football world with his wizardry.

Now I'm older and wiser and now City have got more to play for than not getting relegated I can see the importance and class of someone like Silva and love him too for his unique abilities and the way he decorates the whole footballing world with his magic.

Both City legends - and wonderful footballers - in their own right and own ways but at very different times both for the team and the fans.

There shouldn't be any argument, only appreciation for the happy moments they've both given us.

 

[franksinatra]

Silva is the better player, but to me as a young lad allowed to go to the football with his mates Kinkladze was god. At the time I had never seen football like it when he got the ball, at least not with my own eyes. My memories of him, because they're amongst my earliest memories of going to games, are some of the very best footballing memories I have.

Sometimes it's not about the effect the player has on a team or on a game but the effect he can have on his fans. And I for one will never forget the way Kinky decorated my football world with his wizardry.
Now I'm older and wiser and now City have got more to play for than not getting relegated I can see the importance and class of someone like Silva and love him too for his unique abilities and the way he decorates the whole footballing world with his magic.

Both City legends - and wonderful footballers - in their own right and own ways but at very different times both for the team and the fans.

There shouldn't be any argument, only appreciation for the happy moments they've both given us.

Ive been writing for 20 pages on this thread discussing the merits of Kinkladze and you have summed it up in a paragraph

 

[Frank H]

Frank my point is 1 thing , is Messi the best player in the world I agree he is , why cause he can dribble past 10 players and score if any1 wants 2 say its cause of his application work rate , passing r wrong its cause with the ball at his feet he is best player in the world and just 4 what it is worth the best player ever , now do u really think Silva can beat half a team and score in a premier league game ?

MCFC OK

Sorry mate Im completely with you now. I think you view the game similar to me. Its always been the players who can beat players who stand out, the players with that unique ability others dont possess.

Your correct Messi is the best because of that attribute, or should I say thats the key ingredient. For me the best and my favourites are the players who can beat opponents as along with goal scoring those in my eyes are the two most difficult skills

Beating players can be done as well with passing as with dribbling. If it were purely dribbling then arguably CRonaldo surpasses Messi.

Close control and ease on the ball are the attributes which stand out for me. The players who can both dribble and pass their way out of a tight situation are for me the key ingredient. And while Silva doesn't do spectacular long dribbles of the Kinkladze/CRonaldo/Messi type, it is quite clear that he is capable of beating several opponents at once, by either short dribbling or passing or both.

I remember watching a Turkish team play a few years ago, and there was a player called Arda Turan, who immediately stood out in this. You knew that whenever he got the ball in a tight situation, he would either emerge with the ball, or he would get it to one of his team-mates. He's now with Atletico, but it would be nice to see him in the EPL.

IIRC, in the great City side of the late '60s, Colin Bell was not a noted dribbler - that was more the attribute of Mike Summerbee.<br /><br />-- Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:34 am --<br /><br />

Silva is the better player, but to me as a young lad allowed to go to the football with his mates Kinkladze was god. At the time I had never seen football like it when he got the ball, at least not with my own eyes. My memories of him, because they're amongst my earliest memories of going to games, are some of the very best footballing memories I have.

Sometimes it's not about the effect the player has on a team or on a game but the effect he can have on his fans. And I for one will never forget the way Kinky decorated my football world with his wizardry.
Now I'm older and wiser and now City have got more to play for than not getting relegated I can see the importance and class of someone like Silva and love him too for his unique abilities and the way he decorates the whole footballing world with his magic.

Both City legends - and wonderful footballers - in their own right and own ways but at very different times both for the team and the fans.

There shouldn't be any argument, only appreciation for the happy moments they've both given us.

Ive been writing for 20 pages on this thread discussing the merits of Kinkladze and you have summed it up in a paragraph

No argument at all on the status that Kinkladze seems to hold in the eyes of a great many Man.City fans. He wouldn't otherwise have come 3rd in a City Legends of all time poll.