How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[The Future’s Blue!]

It won't be a non-issue. He'll still need a policy on the EU.

If that proportion of people who realise Brexit is a shitshow mistake keeps increasing, and the Brexit "opportunities" are just trade deals that bring no benefit to any ordinary voter but piss off the blue wall farmers, it may be the Tories who want it to be a non-issue. If they do have a bonfire of regulations (with very little Parliamentary debate) there will be no obvious benefit for most people (except for those who don't like human rights) and they will risk more objections to problems like sewage in rivers.

I just think of the Poll Tax. Rates abolished (still saving someone in a large expensive house thousands of pounds a year), and people then falling for Major's election pitch as the party that abolished the poll tax (that they'd invented).

The choice may be a Truss ideological pitch to triple down on the shitshow, and Starmer coming up with a policy to normalise relationships with the EU. But with ruling out the CU and SM he is of course ruling out what UKIP campaigned on....

Totally irrelevant, but why post that ****?

Surely we can do better … than that ****!

 

[Grassland Blue]

I think that Starmer is a decent man but he doesn't have the courage to stand out on his own as PM.
He needs more self belief , conviction and heart in what he is saying.

 

[Shaelumstash]

All three parties will vehmently deny that they’re in cahoots, and let’s be honest, just because 60% now appreciate that it was a mistake, it still does not give Labour enough room to manoeuvre in those key areas in which it must win. Ironically, that message could well work to Labour’s advantage in Scotland, but that in turn would not see them winning Conservative seats. Of course, none of this will be enough to satisfy those who want conviction politicians and clear statements up front, but given that it was that kind of politics that saw Labour face an eighty-seat Conservative majority in the first place, then I can understand why they are playing the long game.

As I‘ve always said, it will take incredible levels of voter education to see the three parties overturn the Johnson majority in one Parliament, and if it fails, then Starmer will look back, with hindsight…, and wonder whether he should have ridden the SM wave.

Did you see the by-election results last month? 30% swings away from the Tories, it’s unprecedented.

They’d win about 45 seats at the next election if that trend continued.

And I can’t see the war on protesters and policy of removing the right to strike playing particularly well with the red wall.

This lot are acting like they know the game is up, and they’re ramming through as much far-right toxicity as the can before the ship goes down

 

[Saddleworth2]

All three parties will vehmently deny that they’re in cahoots, and let’s be honest, just because 60% now appreciate that it was a mistake, it still does not give Labour enough room to manoeuvre in those key areas in which it must win. Ironically, that message could well work to Labour’s advantage in Scotland, but that in turn would not see them winning Conservative seats. Of course, none of this will be enough to satisfy those who want conviction politicians and clear statements up front, but given that it was that kind of politics that saw Labour face an eighty-seat Conservative majority in the first place, then I can understand why they are playing the long game.

As I‘ve always said, it will take incredible levels of voter education to see the three parties overturn the Johnson majority in one Parliament, and if it fails, then Starmer will look back, with hindsight…, and wonder whether he should have ridden the SM wave.

The majority of Scots want to be in Europe so his message does not play well here. Basically he is encouraging Scottish labour voters to vote SNP.
I think we agree that if he continues with this strategy we will see another Tory government. Nobody said it would be easy but if he were more honest around Europe I think he would have a better chance.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Did you see the by-election results last month? 30% swings away from the Tories, it’s unprecedented.

They’d win about 45 seats at the next election if that trend continued.

And I can’t see the war on protesters and policy of removing the right to strike playing particularly well with the red wall.

This lot are acting like they know the game is up, and they’re ramming through as much far-right toxicity as the can before the ship goes down

They are acting like they expect or even want to lose and just piling enough shite up to blame on their replacements or even dare them not to repeal - remember how much anti-trades union stuff Blair didn't get rid of and their back track on student fees and privatising rail once they got in? Its almost like they have out foxed Labour before and know if they pile enough shite up some will still be there waiting for them when they get back in.

Anyway - back on topic and in line with the thread Spain are said to be moving to insist on guarantee's before allowing entry such as proving you have enough cash to support yourself for the stay, accommodation for the stay and a return ticket and the gammon are up in arms stirred up by the Mail or Express as predictable - you know the kind of guarantee's we require of them and that the rest of the world ( US, NZ, Aus etc ) require too as third countries.

I am starting to think that despite what we are told most of the 52% who voted had virtually no idea what they were voting for and have buyers remorse over what they have done

 

[Shaelumstash]

They are acting like they expect or even want to lose and just piling enough shite up to blame on their replacements or even dare them not to repeal - remember how much anti-trades union stuff Blair didn't get rid of and their back track on student fees and privatising rail once they got in? Its almost like they have out foxed Labour before and know if they pile enough shite up some will still be there waiting for them when they get back in.

Anyway - back on topic and in line with the thread Spain are said to be moving to insist on guarantee's before allowing entry such as proving you have enough cash to support yourself for the stay, accommodation for the stay and a return ticket and the gammon are up in arms stirred up by the Mail or Express as predictable - you know the kind of guarantee's we require of them and that the rest of the world ( US, NZ, Aus etc ) require too as third countries.

I am starting to think that despite what we are told most of the 52% who voted had virtually no idea what they were voting for and have buyers remorse over what they have done

It’s absolutely barmy that some are surprised that Freedom of Movement has ended for British people as well as “foreigners”.

It’s even more surprising that the right wing media think these restrictions on movement have nothing to do with Brexit.

The buyers remorse is only going to get stronger, unfortunately

 

[NPBlue]

It was always planned this way to do nothing and expect everyone else to pick up the pieces. When you have a rabid right press promoting the type of jingosim and gaslighting the public about this on a daily basis its not hard to see how they get away with it.

It's going to be an increasingly xenaphobic period when import controls kick in.

The hatred of foreigners will reach a new zenith of epic proportions when that happens.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

It's going to be an increasingly xenaphobic period when import controls kick in.

The hatred of foreigners will reach a new zenith of epic proportions when that happens.

I fear the hatred of fellow countrymen will reach a zenith in some quarters too. I frequently said that once we voted to leave, we had to go, as to fail to do so would be so incredibly decisive for us as a nation, but the way this is unraveling will prove to be almost as polarising, sadly.

The negative forces this utterly reckless referendum have unleashed are truly a sight to behold and will, quite possibly, be the undoing of this country as a leading nation.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

It’s absolutely barmy that some are surprised that Freedom of Movement has ended for British people as well as “foreigners”.

It’s just as barmy that they’re trying to blame the French for its natural consequences.

 

[Gabriel]

Did you see the by-election results last month? 30% swings away from the Tories, it’s unprecedented.

They’d win about 45 seats at the next election if that trend continued.

And I can’t see the war on protesters and policy of removing the right to strike playing particularly well with the red wall.

This lot are acting like they know the game is up, and they’re ramming through as much far-right toxicity as the can before the ship goes down

I’ve oft said on here that the U.K. now has a government that has waited generations to be in this position and that it will do everything in its power to ensure that when it ultimately leaves office, it will have deliberately moved the country much further to the right than when it came to power. It knows that the likelihood of it enjoying such a majority anytime soon, perhaps ever, is slim, so it must create the world it wants quickly, even if that means running roughshod over Parliament. Similarly, by pushing the agenda further to the right, it also keeps a sizeable number of the electorate there as well, which strengthens the role of the right in future elections.

All of this will mean any future Westminster government, irrespective of its hue, will find it enormously difficult to reverse the country’s direction and realign with the EU. Holyrood, post-independence, could reinstate legislation in one fell swoop, but the Westminster parties will never be able to reinstate legislation at the same pace or in the same volume, especially as EU legislation itself changes. England and Wales have set themselves on a particular course and I suspect the rudder is well and truly jammed.