How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

blueinsa said:
The will of the people of the Island of Ireland will decide its future and rightly so.

As a unionist it’s pretty hard to accept that the only grown ups in the room politically in NI right now seem to be Sinn Fein and the way the new first minister conducted herself on behalf of everyone recently was magnificent I don’t mind admitting.

I can fully understand why they are doing so well domestically.
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With your history (iirc) that must be a difficult admission to make.
 
blueinsa said:
The will of the people of the Island of Ireland will decide its future and rightly so.

As a unionist it’s pretty hard to accept that the only grown ups in the room politically in NI right now seem to be Sinn Fein and the way the new first minister conducted herself on behalf of everyone recently was magnificent I don’t mind admitting.

I can fully understand why they are doing so well domestically.
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Yes. And that’s the present. We have the DUP behaving the way they are, now.
If you go back to why the partition of the country was done in the first place though, you will find what I was referring to in my post to you.
There were two votes in the early part of the 20th century that overwhelmingly voted the country out of the UK and a very well armed northern unionist sector said,….. well Ulster said NO.

The bloodshed that would have happened would have put everything that had happened in the previous centuries and later in the Troubles in the tuppence hal’penny place.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I take your point about the wider forum but I’m struggling to see why anyone who voted to leave is remotely wound up about this thread.

There is no meaningful debate from alternative sides about the merits (or otherwise) of Brexit. It is simply a vehicle for those who thought it was a mistake at the time to vent, shake their heads and to feel some sort of sense of vindication, however bittersweet that may be.

I fully accept it is without question an echo chamber, possibly the biggest on the forum. The thread title should provide a clue. That is the sole remaining function of this thread - no debate about the merits of Brexit, merely a medium for posters of a certain disposition (like myself) to rant a bit - and given that, there is no point in anyone who isn’t part of that cohort engaging with it, or getting worked up about the content. It’s like going on RAWK and getting upset about what they say about City. Simply no point.

Doesn’t mean I‘m trying to say who can and can’t post on here, just that there seems no point engaging with it unless you’re part of that cohort and there’s nothing stopping anyone starting an alternative thread that hasn’t morphed and calcified like this one.

Maybe some of us just want a space where we can collectively moan and let off some steam about Brexit. It’s hardly a capital offence and stops us boring people in the real world about the subject.
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I pop in here to read about the Brexit benefits, it’d be nice of those moaning to actually have a debate about them.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
Yes. And that’s the present. We have the DUP behaving the way they are, now.
If you go back to why the partition of the country was done in the first place though, you will find what I was referring to in my post to you.
There were two votes in the early part of the 20th century that overwhelmingly voted the country out of the UK and a very well armed northern unionist sector said,….. well Ulster said NO.

The bloodshed that would have happened would have put everything that had happened in the previous centuries and later in the Troubles in the tuppence hal’penny place.
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I won’t even begin to try and explain how it would pan out other than to say this. Terrorists can never be allowed to win the day and if you guys voted for a United Ireland tomorrow I’d fully support and expect nothing less than the governments of both our nations to hunt down anyone who thinks they can stop and silence the democratic process.
 
blueinsa said:
It is but time and people move on.

I’ve had enough of division, it’s time to move forwards.
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Well said - like you I am sick and tired of division. What we need to do is just open our eyes and our ears - we have an incredible planet full ( or very nearly full ) of beautiful decent people. We should concentrate on the positive.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
I pop in here to read about the Brexit benefits, it’d be nice of those moaning to actually have a debate about them.
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There isn’t any as of yet because politically we are being led by imbeciles and frankly shysters who have deliberately damaged the process out of self interests.

I’d like to think with the right leadership, here and within the EU we would see some in the years to come but I won’t hold my breath, hence my position of hugely regretting my vote to leave but it doesn’t mean that down the line there won’t be any.

It’s very much in all our interests it does start to work out because we are not going back in.
 
blueinsa said:
There isn’t any as of yet because politically we are being led by imbeciles and frankly shysters who have deliberately damaged the process out of self interests.

I’d like to think with the right leadership, here and within the EU we would see some in the years to come but I won’t hold my breath, hence my position of hugely regretting my vote to leave but it doesn’t mean that down the line there won’t be any.

It’s very much in all our interests it does start to work out because we are not going back in.
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Interesting thought, will Labour do a better job?
 
west didsblue said:
And we’re continuing to reap the consequences, with new ones becoming apparent almost on a weekly basis.
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Agreed. It's slowly unfurling. It's only just the start of a decline in my opinion. The negative impact so far is much worse than anticipated.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
Interesting thought, will Labour do a better job?
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No I don’t think they will if I’m being honest.

As a minimum we should be rejoining the single market but Starmer has made it clear it’s not going to happen and only he can explain that?

Other than renegotiation of our relationship which is a great buzz phrase, I’ve seen nor heard anything substantive or different from him or Labour that makes me think he will make a positive difference re what post brexit Britain will look like.

Hope I’m totally wrong, I’d love to be.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Won’t depend solely on them though, lamentably.

I’m not sure many EU member states in tens years will wants a divided and semi-reluctant UK back in the fold, endlessly equivocating and complaining.
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Yes true but some years down the line that will possibly change. We've also got nuclear weapons and they will always want us in the gang for that alone.
 
blueinsa said:
No I don’t think they will if I’m being honest.

As a minimum we should be rejoining the single market but Starmer has made it clear it’s not going to happen and only he can explain that?

Other than renegotiation of our relationship which is a great buzz phrase, I’ve seen nor heard anything substantive or different from him or Labour that makes me think he will make a positive difference re what post brexit Britain will look like.

Hope I’m totally wrong, I’d love to be.
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I did hear him saying that he would not be looking to rejoin (GE killer) but he would be looking for closer partnerships, which is at least better than we currently have.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Won’t depend solely on them though, lamentably.

I’m not sure many EU member states in ten years time will wants a divided and semi-reluctant UK back in the fold, endlessly equivocating and complaining.
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I’d agree and it’s why political attitudes here and within the EU will have to change to facilitate any move.

Despite the temptation it can’t be a case of throwing the naughty child over a knee for a spanking first.

It has to be sold to hundreds of millions of people.
 
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