How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[hilts]

I think for many Remainers the way the ‘victors’ handled the outcome makes that difficult. Prior to 2016, our relationship with the EU was always tempered and restrained in deference to the rump of Euroscepticism that heavily features in this nation’s psyche.

Yet when 52% voted to leave, it was ‘you lost, get over it’ an extreme form of Brexit and egregious rudeness to our neighbours thrown into the mix. The views of the 48% were pretty much ignored.

There was no reciprocity of compromise.

I’m afraid that is going to prevent a harmonious way forward for the foreseeable.

Which is somewhat hypocritical as many remainers argued that the 52% should be ignored. The whole debate on this which has been going on for years shows how people really really don't like not getting their own way.

 

[blueinsa]

Yet when 52% voted to leave, it was ‘you lost, get over it’ an extreme form of Brexit and egregious rudeness to our neighbours thrown into the mix. The views of the 48% were pretty much ignored.

There was no reciprocity of compromise.

Brexit was a huge mistake, one I’ve owned and admitted too but I find this statement a tad hypocritical I’m afraid given how the 48% demanded the wishes of the 52% just be ignored and the vote to leave overturned.

Had that happened any notion of harmony or compromise would have been entirely non existent and the damage far greater than anything leaving the EU imo.

To be fair, I know you was never one of those wanting that.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Here is another one who travelled with hope in his heart only to be dashed on the loors of reality - we just ain't that impornant now

We are irrelevant now as as "world power."

Seen as the small angry man at the bar who's always looking for a scrap and patronised by everyone else's in there.

Another #BrexitBenefit

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Which is somewhat hypocritical as many remainers argued that the 52% should be ignored. The whole debate on this which has been going on for years shows how people really really don't like not getting their own way.

I wasn’t one of them. I always said we had to leave.

 

[blueinsa]

We are irrelevant now as as "world power."

No matter how many times this is said on here, it’s absolute fucking rubbish.

Permanent member of the UN Security Council, one of only 5 nations to hold that privilege. A Nuclear power, member of 5 eyes, some of the world finest security services, major member of NATO, I could go on.

If you genuinely believe what you say then you don’t live in the same Nation that I do imo.

 

[hilts]

I wasn’t one of them. I always said we had to leave.

I know fella

 

[inbetween]

Brexit was a huge mistake, one I’ve owned and admitted too but I find this statement a tad hypocritical I’m afraid given how the 48% demanded the wishes of the 52% just be ignored and the vote to leave overturned.

Had that happened any notion of harmony or compromise would have been entirely non existent and the damage far greater than anything leaving the EU imo.

To be fair, I know you was never one of those wanting that.

This is ultimately the problem, the referendum was far too arbitrary given we had two options but many possible views on the subject. This is what the hardest remainers still don't understand, they think that many remainers were 100% remain, IE take the Euro, more integration etc but that is absolutely not true. Anyone with that view is in a minority. The majority of people are skeptical yet accepted EU membership because of its greater benefits.

I put myself in this skeptic bracket, I voted remain but I did so because leave wasn't defined enough and I just wasn't sure. I still however thought that we'd get more in the negotiation and that is why at one point I leant towards leave. However as it turns out we basically just surrendered and drowned in our own political mess. Theresa May triggering Article 50 without a coherent government and plan for leave was the worst decision in recent political history.

A massive miscalculation was also to assume that the EU would act in the interest of its member states and give us something more, aka cherry picking. However it turns out that the EU serves the EU and it values things like the integrity of the single market far more greatly than we thought.

In the end the EU view will be that it won the negotiations but I'm not so sure that European countries and European citizens won which actually sort of sums up my skepticism... The UK meanwhile is indeed out and has cut itself off from that but the self-harm needed to get there is huge and it'll probably cost us for generations.

 

[johnnytapia]

Burn down the country?

Hang the blessed DJ.

 

[TinFoilHat]

No matter how many times this is said on here, it’s absolute fucking rubbish.

Permanent member of the UN Security Council, one of only 5 nations to hold that privilege. A Nuclear power, member of 5 eyes, some of the world finest security services, major member of NATO, I could go on.

If you genuinely believe what you say then you don’t live in the same Nation that I do imo.

Economically we're now a nobody. We fucked off our best trading options for a blue passport.

 

[BrianW]

Economically were now a nobody. We fucked off our best trading options for a blue passport.

And military/diplomatic decline follows economic decline as night follows day.

Our seat on the UN Security Council was not given to us by God. It can be taken from us. There is already a case for giving India one. When we were in the EU, we were effectively one of two reps for the economic powerhouse that is the European Union. Now we just represent ourselves.

We have lost our Empire. We have trashed the replacement we found for it. The world is a cold and lonely place. Great power? The Navy is tiny. We have two aircraft carriers we can't really afford, and seem at best to have one in service due to reliability. The Daring class destroyers are notable for their unreliability. It's actually quite scary.

The Army has about 80,000 effectives. After WWI, Germany was limited to 100,000 after the punitive Versailles Treaty and that has been called 'a police force.' When we were in Iraq our soldiers did so much borrowing off the US Army we were known as 'The Borrowers'. I distinctly remember public collections being made for basic items for our troops as things like this were not supplied - by the same Government that was sending them to risk their lives. Tales of soldiers buying kit with their own money abound.

I don't know too much about the RAF, but I do know our allies often do the intercepting of Russian planes on our behalf.

The bottom line is we can't afford anything better. The USSR was brought down because it could no longer keep up with US military hardware due to economic weakness. We are in a similar case.