How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[Gabriel]

Nope, they said it, some people chose to ignore it though because it doesn't fit their narrative.

They did say it. They just didn't admit that the consequences would be extremely painful and that the longed-for trade deals might not happen and might not compensate.

 

[mexico1970]

Lied to as in the benefits we would feel.

They said we would leave the single market and we did, now the goal posts got moved because that is a point proven?

The "Benefits we feel" is a bit wishy washy and vague.

 

[mexico1970]

They did say it. They just didn't admit that the consequences would be extremely painful and that the longed-for trade deals might not happen and might not compensate.

There are a lot of people who voted to remain try to convince everyone that we never intended to leave the single market and stop FOM, either they didn't know about it or they are outwardly lying.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

They did say it. They just didn't admit that the consequences would be extremely painful and that the longed-for trade deals might not happen and might not compensate.

He thinks it was a totally binary choice. Like in all his debates, he can’t see nuance.

 

[mosssideblue]

They said we would leave the single market and we did, now the goal posts got moved because that is a point proven?

The "Benefits we feel" is a bit wishy washy and vague.

Come off it. The sales pitch for the referendum was that we would be infinitely better off. I say again, we were lied to and even Johnson when cornered had to lie once again to claim he never said the NHS would get the extra money promised as a result of leaving

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Politicians from every party told the country that we would be out of the single market though.

I’d be surprised if you can find many of the Brexit protagonist’s saying that, certainly before the referendum. Cameron and the remain said it often and I believe it was called ‘project fear’.

A few examples, apologies for length of post.

“Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market” Daniel Hannan MEP

“Only a madman would actually leave the Market” Owen Paterson MP, Vote Leave backer

“Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing” Nigel Farage, Ukip leader

“The Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initally attractive for some business people”- Matthew Elliot, Vote Leave chief executive

“Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK” Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder

"I would vote to stay in the single market. I'm in favour of the single market." Boris Johnson. Mind you, he said this in 2018

“EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU.

“British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market.

“Britain is and always will be a great European power, offering top-table opinions and giving leadership on everything from foreign policy to defence to counter-terrorism and intelligence-sharing – all the things we need to do together to make our world safer.”

“Britain would be able to trade in the European Free Trade Zone that stretches from Iceland to Turkey - this includes countries like Bosnia, Serbia and Albania” M..Gove

“When we get to the referendum, I hope it is a real debate about everything that Europe offers. You mentioned quite a few of those things: I would add the single market and single trade policy to that,” he told the devolved legislature at the time.


“Although estimates vary about how much wealth the single market generates for the UK, since we joined, it’s probably in the order of five, six, seven, eight per cent uplift to GDP.

“For somebody on an average salary that’s about £1,500 a year. Most people think that that’s worth having. I think when you put it in those terms, there’s a very clear benefit, that because we don’t see it every day, we’ve kind of forgotten about it but it is there and we’d begin to lose it if we weren’t part of it.” David Frost.

“My preference would be that we should remain within the customs union of the EU [even though we would] give up some freedoms in terms of negotiating our trading arrangements with third countries,” he said.

“The advantage would be that our manufacturers would not face complex and punitive rules-of-origin tariffs.” David Davis.

 

[mexico1970]

Come off it. The sales pitch for the referendum was that we would be infinitely better off. I say again, we were lied to and even Johnson when cornered had to lie once again to claim he never said the NHS would get the extra money promised as a result of leaving

I didn't say it wasn't shit it was, what I am saying is that on this one topic they were clear. We voted to stop FOM and leave the single market.

It all really heated up when Cameron went to Brussels and came back with a few stickers off of a happy meal instead of a deal from the EU.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

I read it correctly, what makes you think I didn't? By making this work we have to stop whinging about it and work through it because we had a vote that everyone understood even though one side of the argument believes anyone who doesn't think like they do are stupid.

People voted mainly to leave the single market and end FOM, yet people are concentrating on signing back up for it. We can start by agreeing that's just remainer talk no?

Again, that is not accurate though is it? It isnt, because it cannot be. It was based on misinformation. No facts were used, and there was certainly no explanation around what the consequences would be, or how leaving would actually be achieved. "Everyone understood". Sorry, that is demonstrably wrong.

 

[mexico1970]

I’d be surprised if you can find many of the Brexit protagonist’s saying that, certainly before the referendum. Cameron and the remain said it often and I believe it was called ‘project fear’.

A few examples, apologies for length of post.

“Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market” Daniel Hannan MEP

“Only a madman would actually leave the Market” Owen Paterson MP, Vote Leave backer

“Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing” Nigel Farage, Ukip leader

“The Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initally attractive for some business people”- Matthew Elliot, Vote Leave chief executive

“Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK” Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder

"I would vote to stay in the single market. I'm in favour of the single market." Boris Johnson. Mind you, he said this in 2018

“EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU.

“British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market.

“Britain is and always will be a great European power, offering top-table opinions and giving leadership on everything from foreign policy to defence to counter-terrorism and intelligence-sharing – all the things we need to do together to make our world safer.”

“Britain would be able to trade in the European Free Trade Zone that stretches from Iceland to Turkey - this includes countries like Bosnia, Serbia and Albania” M..Gove

“When we get to the referendum, I hope it is a real debate about everything that Europe offers. You mentioned quite a few of those things: I would add the single market and single trade policy to that,” he told the devolved legislature at the time.


“Although estimates vary about how much wealth the single market generates for the UK, since we joined, it’s probably in the order of five, six, seven, eight per cent uplift to GDP.

“For somebody on an average salary that’s about £1,500 a year. Most people think that that’s worth having. I think when you put it in those terms, there’s a very clear benefit, that because we don’t see it every day, we’ve kind of forgotten about it but it is there and we’d begin to lose it if we weren’t part of it.” David Frost.

“My preference would be that we should remain within the customs union of the EU [even though we would] give up some freedoms in terms of negotiating our trading arrangements with third countries,” he said.

“The advantage would be that our manufacturers would not face complex and punitive rules-of-origin tariffs.” David Davis.

Before the referendum the main leader announced that we would be leaving the single market, we can't hold Boris up as an example of good faith because he flipped in 2018 can we?

 

[Gabriel]

If we agreed to the T&Cs, it’d be simple. We’d have to be rule takers, but we signed up to that and will have to accept that as part of the “shit show”.

I still feel that there is a degree of hubris among Westminster politicians. Labour will probably feel they can make a better job of it, but once the honeymoon period is over (a year?), it will be their show, their responsibility, and their job to come up with a solution. I would imagine things will remain unchanged until maybe year 2-3 of the coming Parliament, at which time Labour will realise it is time to re-open the discussion.