How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

Palerider said:
What's your view on Scottish and Irish independence? Do you think the USA regret going it alone?
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I think the Scots are misguided but the way it is at the moment I can see the attraction up there as they voted to Remain. Restoring NI to a united ireland is in my mind righting a century old wrong which is a hangover of British imperialism. The USA is the USA - what do you think those letters mean in terms of a Federal body?
 
Vic said:
They're appointed by a committee that's - so far - independent of government (and appointment of the chair of the committee is after a due process that's reasonably transparent).

But if a corrupt government regards judges who declare their laws as unlawful as "lefty", who knows what might happen?

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exactly - they are independent - as are those on the EHRC - but of course it would be much better if we only had judges who have the backing of the R/W press lol
 
Vic said:
So you're against the UN?
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Good question. I think the UN is one of those organisations that looks good on paper but is a complete waste of space. Jobs for the boys type organisation. Cannot think of anything it has done apart from shitting their pants in the Balkans and allowing mass murder to occur. I think the Ukraine proves that you have to believe in what you are fighting for to risk your life. I don't see it in the same light as the EU but consider it more a diplomatic channel than a peace keeper. Bit like Acas.
 
Palerider said:
Good question. I think the UN is one of those organisations that looks good on paper but is a complete waste of space. Jobs for the boys type organisation. Cannot think of anything it has done apart from shitting their pants in the Balkans and allowing mass murder to occur. I think the Ukraine proves that you have to believe in what you are fighting for to risk your life. I don't see it in the same light as the EU but consider it more a diplomatic channel than a peace keeper. Bit like Acas.
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Nail - Head. There is not enough world war for some - we need one every 20 years and peace is overrated

1674772840056.jpeg
 
Chris in London said:
We can and we do, and membership of the European Union had nothing to do with that.

Are you confusing this with the European Court of Justice?
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Possibly. FFS how many courts are there? Just to be clear it's any court EU related iI'd want to leave. A world court that can prosecute rogue states is welcomed even if they are toothless.
 
Palerider said:
Possibly. FFS how many courts are there? Just to be clear it's any court EU related iI'd want to leave. A world court that can prosecute rogue states is welcomed even if they are toothless.
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do you not think that the best way to discuss something properly you need to do some research? To call for us to come out of the orbit of a court then to say ooopppsss I may not have got the right one to "I don't even know how many courts there are" is staggering but routine for a Brexiter - all unfounded belief - when questioned in detail - leap away from topic to topic on the basis you hope a moving target is harder to hit then finally reveal that most of your fantasy is based on assumptions because you know no fact nor detail...........nobody can debate with that pure sophistry
 
bluethrunthru said:
I think the Scots are misguided but the way it is at the moment I can see the attraction up there as they voted to Remain. Restoring NI to a united ireland is in my mind righting a century old wrong which is a hangover of British imperialism. The USA is the USA - what do you think those letters mean in terms of a Federal body?
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Surely everyone thinks of the USA as one country? I hope the Scots stay. NI is so difficult but until religion and possibly the royalty die out, which may never happen, I do not see a fix.
 
Palerider said:
Surely everyone thinks of the USA as one country? I hope the Scots stay. NI is so difficult but until religion and possibly the royalty die out, which may never happen, I do not see a fix.
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FEDERAL

adjective

  1. 1.
    having or relating to a system of government in which several states form a unity but remain independent in internal affairs.
    "a federal Europe"

  2. 2.
    relating to or denoting the central government as distinguished from the separate units constituting a federation.
 
bluethrunthru said:
do you not think that the best way to discuss something properly you need to do some research? To call for us to come out of the orbit of a court then to say ooopppsss I may not have got the right one to "I don't even know how many courts there are" is staggering but routine for a Brexiter - all unfounded belief - when questioned in detail - leap away from topic to topic on the basis you hope a moving target is harder to hit then finally reveal that most of your fantasy is based on assumptions because you know no fact nor detail...........nobody can debate with that pure sophistry
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In fairness we are not negotiating on detailed points. We are discussing whether membership of the EU is useful or not and whether the UK will be better in or out. Personally I think it was pretty clear that I was discussing any EU related court rather than some non EU court but maybe I overrated my audience. I'm used to being insulted by smug, condescending remainers. So no harm done.
 
Palerider said:
Surely everyone thinks of the USA as one country? I hope the Scots stay. NI is so difficult but until religion and possibly the royalty die out, which may never happen, I do not see a fix.
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bluethrunthru said:
FEDERAL

adjective

  1. 1.
    having or relating to a system of government in which several states form a unity but remain independent in internal affairs.
    "a federal Europe"

  2. 2.
    relating to or denoting the central government as distinguished from the separate units constituting a federation.
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I think Greta Thunberg used the phrase 'little dick syndrome' recently. Does she know you?
 
Palerider said:
I think Greta Thunberg used the phrase 'little dick syndrome' recently. Does she know you?
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I have no idea - I do know I have a much greater understanding of what a federal system looks like - as I say never argue when you are on land you cannot trust
 
Palerider said:
In fairness we are not negotiating on detailed points. We are discussing whether membership of the EU is useful or not and whether the UK will be better in or out. Personally I think it was pretty clear that I was discussing any EU related court rather than some non EU court but maybe I overrated my audience. I'm used to being insulted by smug, condescending remainers. So no harm done.
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moving target again - so predictable - lets not discuss the bollocks I posted let me try some new uniformed bollocks......
 
Palerider said:
Surely everyone thinks of the USA as one country? I hope the Scots stay. NI is so difficult but until religion and possibly the royalty die out, which may never happen, I do not see a fix.
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Nothing like sharing your ignorance on a public forum, is there? Or is it all wummery?

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White House receives secession pleas from all 50 states

White House receives secession pleas from all 50 states
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Palerider said:
Not sure I'll get to 10 benefits without using minor benefits or copying from the Web, but here goes.
1: Independence. This is obviously the crux of the whole debate and you either understand the need or not. The SNP understand!
2: Self reliance. I detest sweat shops and slave labour and I hated that freedom of movement was basically the rich EU countries using the poorer countries for cheap labour to do the worse jobs.
3: No European Court of Human Rights. I think we should decide ourselves what is right and wrong.
4: The status quo gets broken. Much political debate in this country is the middle class, University educated types arguing amongst themselves on who should be the Messiah. The working class are treated as sheep to be led, brainless, racist and xenophobic.
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I'm sorry point 4 I cannot agree with. The political debate is set by a concentrated small cadre of people who went to specific Schools (Eton), studied at specific universities (Oxford) and who's motivation for been in politics is at best suspect. The status quo will not get broken by brexit, Labour or Conservative will always be in power until a serious reform of the British electoral system is undertaken. The only slight shift that brxit has caused is within the parties, as MP do childish stunts against the EU to seem more "british"

I am the first in my family to go to university, I worked hard to build a life that would be considered middle class. I fail to see how any member of the middle class is the problem in this country. By contrast an entitled upper class elite who have little talent, integrity, work ethic or the sketch of a plan to run a country have in the last 6-8 years done incalculable damage to economics and world standing of the UK.

Your point 2, regarding sweat shops and exploitation of poorer countries did not require brexit. In fact you are adding a noble cause onto brexit that was never there 6 years ago and will not in any way feature in this government's plan.

Brexit, whether you wanted it or not, is a huge undertaking. It required, long term vision, planning, discipline and focus. Has any part of the last 6 years looked like they knew what they wanted to do after brexit??
 
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