How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[KPXBLN]

Couldn't be arsed? We had an entire year boring everyone to death talking about it. It all boiled down to "if you vote leave you're a racist" or "We want our country back".

Meanwhile, those of us making the arguments for rejoining EFTA or similar once we leave, were shouted down. We had our game plan, the rest of you weren't on the same page because you thought you were fighting some culture war. And just to clarify, are you against the UK rejoining the EFTA?

The loudest shouting down was done by the right wing newspapers that called any kind of 'soft' brexit a "betrayal".

Cameron should have told the Bruges Group whingers and fanatics to bring a coherent plan for a specific brexit and vote on that. Yes there was a lot of criticism of Brexit and its potential voters (much of it accurate), but the vagueness of what was proposed made it a slippery target. As I said, Cameron couldn't be arsed to make them pin it down.

 

[Metal Biker]

The loudest shouting down was done by the right wing newspapers that called any kind of 'soft' brexit a "betrayal".

Cameron should have told the Bruges Group whingers and fanatics to bring a coherent plan for a specific brexit and vote on that. Yes there was a lot of criticism of Brexit and its potential voters (much of it accurate), but the vagueness of what was proposed made it a slippery target. As I said, Cameron couldn't be arsed to make them pin it down.

Which is why you ignore them and throw your weight behind the compromise which everyone was in favour of, rather than the stamp-foot method of no-no-no, I don't want this!

I'm not even going to bother addressing the rest of your ignorant opinions about voters; enough has been highlighted already as to how your side of the 'debate' lost touch with the majority by labelling them as something they weren't.

 

[west didsblue]

You're having the difficulty in understanding that in order to become a member of the EFTA one must first vote to leave the EU?

We were asked one question. All the other subsequent questions, "How do we leave?" "When do we leave?" "In what manner do we leave?" came later.

Which clearly explains why you posted this

Meanwhile those of us who did opt for EFTA/similar

 

[Metal Biker]

Which clearly explains why you posted this

Mentioning that joining EFTA was always the agenda? Yeah, had been since 2014.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Some guy representing Guinness on the radio.
Seemingly Guinness biggest selling draught drink in the UK for the first time ever, 1 in 9 bought are now Guinness.
Apart from advertising, pricing etc he said that Brexit has been particularly favourable to them but has disadvantaged many of their other European competitors.

That’s just from me!

 

[BeerIsTheBest]

waffle waffle waffle - VACCINES - it a load of shite isn't it

I would like one, just one, member of the opposition to refute this untruth which is trotted out with such regularity that folk will eventually believe it. It’s bollocks and here are the facts

Vaccine approval isn’t quicker because of Brexit - Full Fact

The MHRA could have given the Pfizer vaccine the same emergency approval when the UK was in the EU.

fullfact.org

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

You're having the difficulty in understanding that in order to become a member of the EFTA one must first vote to leave the EU?

We were asked one question. All the other subsequent questions, "How do we leave?" "When do we leave?" "In what manner do we leave?" came later.

And in voting the way you did you put your faith in a collection of corrupt BSers. You have to own brexit.

 

[KS55]

Why are energy prices higher here than in the EU?

Having slipped back here by mistake, I should take the opportunity to comment on energy prices.
Our energy arrangements with EU remain unchanged from before Brexit. Talks are going on at a leisurely pace to design a new agreement but neither side is in any hurry, especially where energy markets are volatile. Thus our high energy costs are nothing to do with Brexit.
Without looking too deeply into it, I would guess that our higher energy prices are because, inter alia:
—We have taken much less energy products from Russia than others. Russian energy is the cheapest around.
—We have a different mix of energy used to the mix in the EU.
—We have higher transport costs than EU.
There will be other factors but, as I say, I have not researched this deeply. Maybe our regulatory environment is weaker; maybe foreign companies who own a large part of our energy market are charging us a higher price to support their home market.
Whatever the factors are, they were there before Brexit and they are still there now. Brexit has not changed our energy prices.
As the EU grapples with disentangling from Russia and they use up large reserves of gas, maybe their prices will rise nearer to ours.

 

[Metal Biker]

And in voting the way you did you put your faith in a collection of corrupt BSers. You have to own brexit.

Hmm don't remember ever voting Tory, scamp.
Besides i'm in a Labour safe seat.

And I do own my involvement in brexit as should you; I was asked if I wanted to stay or leave, I chose the latter. That's as far as my involvement goes. Anything beyond that is the work of MP's and votes in Parliament.

Only a complete, misguided, hate-filled, bitter man-child would even remotely for a second assume I contributed any more to the eventuality that it became. I mean, you wouldn't be so unscrupulous to suggest that because I ticked a box on a piece of paper that I and others are wholly responsible for the shitshow you also allowed it to become? You'd have to be a complete idiot to believe that!

After all, you did nothing to stop brexit from becoming a reality either. My vote was cancelled out by yours and several others. So how did it happen? Could it be resulting general elections were to blame...? Remember the referendum was not legally binding!

 

[KPXBLN]

when person A voted for something and person B voted against it, I think it's pretty uncontroversial to say that person A bears more responsibility for the consequences of that thing. (Though person A bears less responsibility than politicians, lying media, etc.)

 

[Metal Biker]

when person A voted for something and person B voted against it, I think it's pretty uncontroversial to say that person A bears more responsibility for the consequences of that thing. (Though person A bears less responsibility than politicians, lying media, etc.)

One vote cancels out the other. The vote wasn't legally binding; parliament had no obligation to carry it through. Brexit is the result of the years of bickering, side choosing and entrenched opinions that followed on from that vote. The result was immaterial, it just gave ERG an excuse; they could have carried out a vote to leave even if it came back to remain, if they so wished, because Parliament is sovereign. The EU referendum just showed that 17.4m were in favour of the Government to consider the possible ways of leaving the EU. Some of us were on the side of the now referred-to-as "soft" brexit options.

So, we (EFTA advocates) technically didn't "win" either. You could say we are brexit-in-waiting, because until we rejoin the EFTA, what we campaigned for hasn't yet reached fruition, but the right party in power could make it happen, we just have to wait. It's a more likely option than rejoining the EU.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

So, we (EFTA advocates) technically didn't "win" either. You could say we are brexit-in-waiting, because until we rejoin the EFTA, what we campaigned for hasn't yet reached fruition, but the right party in power could make it happen, we just have to wait. It's a more likely option than rejoining the EU.

Did you form a political party to lobby for EFTA membership?

Was it even a talking point during the referendum?

It’s fantasy land, EFTA is just another way of saying "Norway deal", it was never going to happen as soon as no deal is better than a bad deal was uttered.

EFTA advocates are an irrelevant footnote in history, less significant than the Independent Group for Change.

But even more delusional and out of touch.

 

[BerkshireBlue]

Hmm don't remember ever voting Tory, scamp.
Besides i'm in a Labour safe seat.

And I do own my involvement in brexit as should you; I was asked if I wanted to stay or leave, I chose the latter. That's as far as my involvement goes. Anything beyond that is the work of MP's and votes in Parliament.

Only a complete, misguided, hate-filled, bitter man-child would even remotely for a second assume I contributed any more to the eventuality that it became. I mean, you wouldn't be so unscrupulous to suggest that because I ticked a box on a piece of paper that I and others are wholly responsible for the shitshow you also allowed it to become? You'd have to be a complete idiot to believe that!

After all, you did nothing to stop brexit from becoming a reality either. My vote was cancelled out by yours and several others. So how did it happen? Could it be resulting general elections were to blame...? Remember the referendum was not legally binding!

be a man and just admit you fucked up

 

[Metal Biker]

be a man and just admit you fucked up

This should be good, another one to play with!

I'm sure you've read my posts, you know my position, what I advocated. When politicians take matters into their own hands and a toxic debate replaces a sensible one in a non binding referendum. Someone who didn't vote Tory, didn't support 'hard brexit', is apparently the same as someone who was in support of both?

Apparently you cannot fathom there was a third option and you were unable to see it. Be a man (?) and admit you were so blinded by hatred that you allowed Boris, the ERG and the Tories to take command of the debate, forcing the narrative and turned everyone against you, all because you behaved like a man(child).

Denying there was ever a third position on the subject because it doesn't suit your narrative of 'we good, them bad', just makes for a poor argument on your part... not that you've even made one.

 

[west didsblue]

There’s some real twisted logic on this thread tonight from the one who can never be wrong.
It was quite amusing for a while but it’s getting tedious now.

 

[Metal Biker]

There’s some real twisted logic on this thread tonight from the one who can never be wrong.
It was quite amusing for a while but it’s getting tedious now.

And it's only gonna continue, boo!

Damn, you guys don't like when your narrative gets torn to shreds do you.

(Report button is down there, in case you forget, but lets be honest, you're well acquainted ;P)

 

[west didsblue]

And it's only gonna continue, boo!

Damn, you guys don't like when your narrative gets torn to shreds do you.

(Report button is down there, in case you forget, but lets be honest, you're well acquainted ;P)

I’m afraid the only narrative that doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny is yours.

Not that you will ever admit it though.

You’re doing your pigeon playing chess impression again.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

There is no third force in a binary vote. Anyone who believes there is, is delusional and trying to delude others.

If I offer you a vegetarian option or meat, you don't get to ask for meat and change your mind to fish, when your order of meat is delivered to your table.

Eat your fucking meat.

Now replace meat with shit and you get a more accurate state of play in Brexitania.

 

[Metal Biker]

I’m afraid the only narrative that doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny is yours.

Not that you will ever admit it though.

You’re doing your pigeon playing chess impression again.

You just refuse to accept that soft brexit was an option supported by many, it was debated, discussed, theorised and even tabled, but the remainers shouted it down that it became a hard leave vs remain debate.

And you're so keen to label everyone who voted leave as "the enemy" it appears to consume your every waking moment. I bet you ask people in stores how they voted don't you. The new McCarthyism.

 

[west didsblue]

You just refuse to accept that soft brexit was an option supported by many, it was debated, discussed, theorised and even tabled, but the remainers shouted it down that it became a hard leave vs remain debate.

And you're so keen to label everyone who voted leave as "the enemy" it appears to consume your every waking moment. I bet you ask people in stores how they voted don't you. The new McCarthyism.

Brexit was the only option.

No.