How far will the fall be before evasive action is taken?

[Shaelumstash]

I bet they give it a good go lol.it was a great post by the way

Thanks :-)

You're right though, that in a 300 word post, that dreaded "M" word in the last paragraph will be what the usual suspects jump on.

 

[cleavers]

You clearly care a lot about the club and are passionate, but I think you are looking in the wrong places to apportion blame here.

The squad of 2009/10 HAS been rejuvenated. It's been rejuvenated to the tune of 250 million quid.

For the last few years we've been saying we're too reliant on Silva, we need another creative force. We brought in the most creative player in Europe for £50million.

We've been saying we need some youth, we need some width, some pace. We brought in Sterling who is the best young prospect in England, even in Europe according to UEFA, for £45million.

People complained Lescott wasn't good enough on the ball, we need a centre half who can defend and is good on the ball. We brought in DeMichelis who is superb on the ball. We brought in a centre half who all of the biggest clubs in Europe were chasing in Mangala for £30million plus, we brought in the most highly rated centre back in Spain for £25million plus.

In midfield, people said Barry was too slow, can't get box to box, we need someone as good on the ball as Barry, who can also cover the yards that Yaya can't anymore. We brought in Fernandinho for £30million plus, and for my money he's the best box to box midfielder in the league this season.

We tried all summer to get the most highly rated midfielder in the world in Pogba to come. By all accounts we are still trying to get him to come. But getting players of that quality isn't easy. It took Madrid 3 years to finally land Ronaldo, but I'm sure they will all say it was worth the wait.

We've seen from Garcia, Fernando, Rodwell etc that buying average players who are easily gettable is not a sensible strategy for a club in our position. It's better to buy big and buy once instead of buying average and constantly having to replace them because they aren't good enough. I'm sure we'll be back in for Pogba this summer and players of his ilk, and we'll have a much better chance of getting them than ever before.

Of course we need strengthening at full back, and we'll definitely be bringing in at least 2 centre midfielders in my opinion. But based on our activity last summer, we brought in two attacking midfielders for nearly £100million which was possibly our biggest need. We also brought in a very highly rated centre half, and tried to get the best centre midfielder in the world. That one didn't come off. But in addition to them you are suggesting we should have brought in 2 new starting full backs last season.

That would have been 6 new starters! That's more than half a team, and would have cost around £300million to bring them all in during one summer! It's just not realistic.

Of course teams need rejuvenating every few years, but the fact is, we have been rejuvenated! We've brought in some of the most highly coveted players in Europe!

People were calling for Txiki to be knighted in the summer when he brought in De Bruyne, Sterling and Otamendi. The best teams in the world were chasing these guys, and we brought them all in. They've not all been as good as we expected, and now people are blaming that on recruitment?!! I just don't understand it. Everyone wanted these guys in the summer, and now they are not of the required standard?! I'm not having it.

The issue is not the recruitment. The issue is the management, it's so blatantly obvious that I can't believe any right minded individual can't see it.

How many players have improved during Pellegrini's reign? Go through the whole team. Kolarov? Maybe, for 5 or 6 games this season. Yaya in the title winning season, but now he looks like the ghost of Yaya Toure, so it's probably levelled itself out. Other than that, every player has either stayed the same or regressed.

It's too easy to say "Oh it's because they're older now, so they are bound to drop a level". I don't buy it. Kompany's form fell off a cliff last season, which some people seem to be forgetting. This despite the fact as a centre half he should be approaching his peak years. He actually should have improved based on age. Also Sterling and De Bruyne who weren't in our squad in 2010 have been much worse this season than they were in the previous two. Despite playing with better players.

Mangala and Fernando must be playing worse than when we bought them, otherwise we'd have never been interested! Otamendi must be worse than last season. He won La Liga defender of the season last year, and this year he is diving in like a cub scout on Smarties.

This manager took the best defence in the league for three years running and turned it in to a comedy side show. He actually added £75million worth of centre halves and made us much, much worse. Did we get unlucky in that 2 of the most highly rated centre halves in Europe actually turned out to be shite? Was is it just bad fortune that Kompany went from the best centre half in the league to one who gets laughed at on MOTD over the last 2 seasons? The only time any of our centre halves have shown decent form since Pellegrini got here was Kompany at the start of this season.

Nastasic was outstanding in his season under Mancini, and looked woefully out of his depth under Pellegrini. DeMichelis has done ok in patches, Mangala has potential but looks like an accident waiting to happen, Otamendi is clearly a top player, but his constant diving in and lack of concentration is costing us regularly. Kompany, as I said has had a dip in the last two seasons compared to previously. So out of the 5 centre backs Pellegrini has used, 4 have been clearly worse than they were previously. The only one who possibly remained the same is DeMichelis.

The other 4, two were already here and playing very well previously, so no blame for Txiki or recruitment there. Two were bought and were extremely highly rated. It surely can't be a coincidence that all 4 have regressed under Pellegrini's "management"?

So in short, yes the squad needs "tweaking" every year. That is the same at all top clubs. But to say the 2010 team needs "rejuvenating" is incorrect in my view. It's already been rejuvenated with some of the top talent in Europe. It's silly to say anyone who played in 2010 is incapable of playing now. Hart, Clichy, Zabba, Kompany, Silva, Nasri, Aguero are all very capable still at this level and at a decent age. In fact only Zabba is over 30, it's hardly Dad's Army.

From the core squad that won the first title clearly Yaya needs to move on, and in my view so does Kolarov. Other than that I don't see any major issues.

I've heard very good things about Angelino, so I'm sure he can come in to replace Kolarov, and we possibly need a new young right back. We definitely need a couple of centre mids to replace Yaya and Fernando. Hopefully one is Pogba. Other than that, I don't see the need for wholesale changes. The talent is there. They just need to be managed better.

Mancini got far more out of our defenders than Pellegrini does. I'm sure Guardiola will too. The issue isn't that our player's aren't good enough. The issue is the manager isn't, and next season will prove that beyond any doubt whatsoever.

Mostly a good post that, I disagree about one or two things but they're quite minor, Fernando has improved noticeably for me, but doesn't get used often enough in his strongest role. Nastasic, meh, looked good but hid a lot for me, would never have made it here imho.

You were doing so well until the last bit,now you will accused of it being a bobby post

He shouldn't because its true, we were better defensively under Mancini, but they're different managers from very different backgrounds, but even under Mancini we weren't great defensively at times (Ajax being a good measure), so he was far from perfect.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

Not really answering the question though is it...don't eat yourself up about it...some dick said we were in freefall the other day

i felt great thanks, especially after going 3-1 down on aggregate, but, unfortunately one good game or one bad game cant be used as a barometer for the whole season.

i dont think i`ll be eating myself up by what you say anytime soon, i sometimes get frustrated watching the best squad in the last 5 years being held back by the tactics and team selections of a stubborn manager.

 

[LadislavMplmx]

i felt great thanks, especially after going 3-1 down on aggregate, but, unfortunately one good game or one bad game cant be used as a barometer for the whole season.

i dont think i`ll be eating myself up by what you say anytime soon, i sometimes get frustrated watching the best squad in the last 5 years being held back by the tactics and team selections of a stubborn manager.

Agree with everything you say..."a mess" just seems a bit OTT....

 

[r.soleofsalford]

Agree with everything you say..."a mess" just seems a bit OTT....

glad we agree nearly 8-)

 

[Shaelumstash]

Mostly a good post that, I disagree about one or two things but they're quite minor, Fernando has improved noticeably for me, but doesn't get used often enough in his strongest role. Nastasic, meh, looked good but hid a lot for me, would never have made it here imho.

He shouldn't because its true, we were better defensively under Mancini, but they're different managers from very different backgrounds, but even under Mancini we weren't great defensively at times (Ajax being a good measure), so he was far from perfect.

I'd agree Fernando has improved slightly from last season, although he would have struggled to get much worse! Even this season though, he's not very good. I can't see how he was putting in performances at this level in Portugal, there's no way we would have bought him if he was. So for me he's either regressed hugely since we bought him, or he was genuinely this bad in Portugal and the scouting department have been receiving back handers from Porto.

On Nastasic, I thought he was fantastic in 2013 and I voted him my City player of the season. The FA Cup semi against Chelsea in particular he was outstanding. He clearly suited playing in a deeper line as he didn't have much pace. He read the game extremely well and was superb on the ball. I remember Lescott coming out and saying he wishes he was playing, but Nastasic has been so good that he deserves his spot ahead of him.

Nasti doesn't seem to have ripped up any trees since he left, so perhaps his decent early performances were more down to playing in an organised and well drilled back 4 with good players.

Under Pellegrini it's like he actively encourages the defenders to play as individuals. Dive in as high up the pitch as you can. No shape, no cohesive unit. That for me is why we look so much better when Kompany is there. He actually organises the back 4 in to some kind of shape, whereas when he's not it's just a free for all! Thankfully Guardiola is all about defensive shape, team work and marking space instead of players.

We'll see a monumental improvement in the existing players we have under Pep, and the team will perform better than the sum of it's parts. The exact opposite of Pellegrini.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

Agree with everything you say..."a mess" just seems a bit OTT....

I go to home games on the Monton branch coach and away games i go with Monton again if they`re putting a on coach or make other arrangement if they`re not. When on the coach, 1 hour before the game one of the young lads reads the team for the day, as soon as we heard that Demichelis was being picked instead of the faster Sagna and kolarov instead of the faster Clichy there was and audiable groan. because most feared we`d left our selves open for Leicester lightening counter attacks by probably the fastest and most mobile front 3.

although two of their goals came from set pieces i think most of us were proved correct. unfortunately we tend to groan quite a bit when the team is read out

 

[cleavers]

Under Pellegrini it's like he actively encourages the defenders to play as individuals. Dive in as high up the pitch as you can. No shape, no cohesive unit. That for me is why we look so much better when Kompany is there. He actually organises the back 4 in to some kind of shape, whereas when he's not it's just a free for all! Thankfully Guardiola is all about defensive shape, team work and marking space instead of players.

It certainly lacks organisation at times, but we have defended well in some games too. I think the way we play at the back relies on very very good organisation, and we badly lack a leader, its hard to remember not conceding a goal in the first five games, with Kompany and a settled back 4, but it can obviously be done.

As you say it will improve under Pep (it'd struggle to get worse), so things to look forward to, I just hope we can find a way to keep scoring, and defend, but if anyone can I'm sure Pep will be he one.

 

[big phil]

You clearly care a lot about the club and are passionate, but I think you are looking in the wrong places to apportion blame here.

The squad of 2009/10 HAS been rejuvenated. It's been rejuvenated to the tune of 250 million quid.

For the last few years we've been saying we're too reliant on Silva, we need another creative force. We brought in the most creative player in Europe for £50million.

We've been saying we need some youth, we need some width, some pace. We brought in Sterling who is the best young prospect in England, even in Europe according to UEFA, for £45million.

People complained Lescott wasn't good enough on the ball, we need a centre half who can defend and is good on the ball. We brought in DeMichelis who is superb on the ball. We brought in a centre half who all of the biggest clubs in Europe were chasing in Mangala for £30million plus, we brought in the most highly rated centre back in Spain for £25million plus.

In midfield, people said Barry was too slow, can't get box to box, we need someone as good on the ball as Barry, who can also cover the yards that Yaya can't anymore. We brought in Fernandinho for £30million plus, and for my money he's the best box to box midfielder in the league this season.

We tried all summer to get the most highly rated midfielder in the world in Pogba to come. By all accounts we are still trying to get him to come. But getting players of that quality isn't easy. It took Madrid 3 years to finally land Ronaldo, but I'm sure they will all say it was worth the wait.

We've seen from Garcia, Fernando, Rodwell etc that buying average players who are easily gettable is not a sensible strategy for a club in our position. It's better to buy big and buy once instead of buying average and constantly having to replace them because they aren't good enough. I'm sure we'll be back in for Pogba this summer and players of his ilk, and we'll have a much better chance of getting them than ever before.

Of course we need strengthening at full back, and we'll definitely be bringing in at least 2 centre midfielders in my opinion. But based on our activity last summer, we brought in two attacking midfielders for nearly £100million which was possibly our biggest need. We also brought in a very highly rated centre half, and tried to get the best centre midfielder in the world. That one didn't come off. But in addition to them you are suggesting we should have brought in 2 new starting full backs last season.

That would have been 6 new starters! That's more than half a team, and would have cost around £300million to bring them all in during one summer! It's just not realistic.

Of course teams need rejuvenating every few years, but the fact is, we have been rejuvenated! We've brought in some of the most highly coveted players in Europe!

People were calling for Txiki to be knighted in the summer when he brought in De Bruyne, Sterling and Otamendi. The best teams in the world were chasing these guys, and we brought them all in. They've not all been as good as we expected, and now people are blaming that on recruitment?!! I just don't understand it. Everyone wanted these guys in the summer, and now they are not of the required standard?! I'm not having it.

The issue is not the recruitment. The issue is the management, it's so blatantly obvious that I can't believe any right minded individual can't see it.

How many players have improved during Pellegrini's reign? Go through the whole team. Kolarov? Maybe, for 5 or 6 games this season. Yaya in the title winning season, but now he looks like the ghost of Yaya Toure, so it's probably levelled itself out. Other than that, every player has either stayed the same or regressed.

It's too easy to say "Oh it's because they're older now, so they are bound to drop a level". I don't buy it. Kompany's form fell off a cliff last season, which some people seem to be forgetting. This despite the fact as a centre half he should be approaching his peak years. He actually should have improved based on age. Also Sterling and De Bruyne who weren't in our squad in 2010 have been much worse this season than they were in the previous two. Despite playing with better players.

Mangala and Fernando must be playing worse than when we bought them, otherwise we'd have never been interested! Otamendi must be worse than last season. He won La Liga defender of the season last year, and this year he is diving in like a cub scout on Smarties.

This manager took the best defence in the league for three years running and turned it in to a comedy side show. He actually added £75million worth of centre halves and made us much, much worse. Did we get unlucky in that 2 of the most highly rated centre halves in Europe actually turned out to be shite? Was is it just bad fortune that Kompany went from the best centre half in the league to one who gets laughed at on MOTD over the last 2 seasons? The only time any of our centre halves have shown decent form since Pellegrini got here was Kompany at the start of this season.

Nastasic was outstanding in his season under Mancini, and looked woefully out of his depth under Pellegrini. DeMichelis has done ok in patches, Mangala has potential but looks like an accident waiting to happen, Otamendi is clearly a top player, but his constant diving in and lack of concentration is costing us regularly. Kompany, as I said has had a dip in the last two seasons compared to previously. So out of the 5 centre backs Pellegrini has used, 4 have been clearly worse than they were previously. The only one who possibly remained the same is DeMichelis.

The other 4, two were already here and playing very well previously, so no blame for Txiki or recruitment there. Two were bought and were extremely highly rated. It surely can't be a coincidence that all 4 have regressed under Pellegrini's "management"?

So in short, yes the squad needs "tweaking" every year. That is the same at all top clubs. But to say the 2010 team needs "rejuvenating" is incorrect in my view. It's already been rejuvenated with some of the top talent in Europe. It's silly to say anyone who played in 2010 is incapable of playing now. Hart, Clichy, Zabba, Kompany, Silva, Nasri, Aguero are all very capable still at this level and at a decent age. In fact only Zabba is over 30, it's hardly Dad's Army.

From the core squad that won the first title clearly Yaya needs to move on, and in my view so does Kolarov. Other than that I don't see any major issues.

I've heard very good things about Angelino, so I'm sure he can come in to replace Kolarov, and we possibly need a new young right back. We definitely need a couple of centre mids to replace Yaya and Fernando. Hopefully one is Pogba. Other than that, I don't see the need for wholesale changes. The talent is there. They just need to be managed better.

Mancini got far more out of our defenders than Pellegrini does. I'm sure Guardiola will too. The issue isn't that our player's aren't good enough. The issue is the manager isn't, and next season will prove that beyond any doubt whatsoever.

Exceptional post fella.

 

[Shaelumstash]

It certainly lacks organisation at times, but we have defended well in some games too. I think the way we play at the back relies on very very good organisation, and we badly lack a leader, its hard to remember not conceding a goal in the first five games, with Kompany and a settled back 4, but it can obviously be done.

As you say it will improve under Pep (it'd struggle to get worse), so things to look forward to, I just hope we can find a way to keep scoring, and defend, but if anyone can I'm sure Pep will be he one.

in 2012 we had the best defence and scored the most in the league remember. I think the idea that the previous manager was all about defending is based on the fact that he's Italian and not how the team actually played.