How much will J.Navas improve the team over J.Milner?

Bigga said:
Makes me wonder how much you actually know of Milner before he came to City...??

His main strengths are actually in midfield, but with Barry occupying a similar position to Milner's natural strengths, it seems logical to use JM's other bowstring of wide position/ winger(which he isn't, really).

My question now, to you, is should we then compare Jesús Navas to Milner in midfield...?

It would seem that it would be rather unfair to compare a player's secondary position to someone's primary; do you not think...??
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Agreed Milner was sensational at Villa in central midfield. After the Arsenal game I'd play Milner in the middle to protect the back four and shove Yaya further forward where he is best suited. One up top Negredo for me with Silva and either Jovetic or Nevas.

So for me

Hart

Zabba-kompany-Lescot-Clichy

Milner-Ferdandinho

Yaya

Either Nevas/Jovetic-Silva

Negredo
 
Davs 19 said:
Joburg Hero said:
Saif1994 said:
So excited for Rodwell next season. He's so good for his age but just needs to avoid injuries.
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Yep, could be a special prospect if he gets the game time. Immense frame; power, pace, agility, and a good footballer with two feet. I was quite looking forward to seeing Rodwell-Yaya this season but I think Fernandinho will hinder his development. Regardless, in the long run, it should be Rodwell that is a permanent fixture as the box to box midfielder.
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Your knowledge of soccerball is amazing.

Fernandinho will hinder Rodwells development ?

Head wobbling time.
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What's up? Explain how he won't. Dinho is in Rodwell's place in the side, Rodwell won't get the game time because of this. Pretty basic stuff.
 
Joburg Hero said:
Davs 19 said:
Joburg Hero said:
Yep, could be a special prospect if he gets the game time. Immense frame; power, pace, agility, and a good footballer with two feet. I was quite looking forward to seeing Rodwell-Yaya this season but I think Fernandinho will hinder his development. Regardless, in the long run, it should be Rodwell that is a permanent fixture as the box to box midfielder.
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Your knowledge of soccerball is amazing.

Fernandinho will hinder Rodwells development ?

Head wobbling time.
Click to expand...
What's up? Explain how he won't. Dinho is in Rodwell's place in the side, Rodwell won't get the game time because of this. Pretty basic stuff.
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Young box to box midfielder gets tp learn off one of , if not the best box to box midfielders in the league.

If thw club thought that Rodwell was the answer now, do you think they'd have made Fernan rhe first and most expensive signing of the window ?

As you say, pretty basic stuff ....at least for most
 
I'm sure Rodwell would rather have the game time. And with all the talent in the squad I doubt it's Fernandinho he's going to be learning from, but that's irrelevant.
 
mcfc2607 said:
Davs 19 said:
Joburg Hero said:
I'm sure Rodwell would rather have the game time. And with all the talent in the squad I doubt it's Fernandinho he's going to be learning from, but that's irrelevant.
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Oh dear.

I give up

Good night all !
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not sure why the mods dont ban these fucking wums. so bleeding obvious.
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Hmmm? do you need a ban?
 
Joburg Hero said:
I hate to say it, but come May 2014, we'll all be quite sick of Navas. He's hugely frustrating, and while he will provide the width that many City fans have craved for years, he's not a good enough, or intelligent enough player to provide a genuinely top class option out wide. He's so quick, but it's one thing being quick, and one thing knowing how to use it. He beats a man on the outside and delivers a cross a few times per game, but the number of times he'll brainlessly run himself into dead ends is heartbreaking. His delivery is ok, nothing to shout about, but I do expect him to pick up a fair few assists by virtue of his pace and fairly good delivery alone.

As we're all aware, we play a very distinct, compact game, focused on central areas. In turn, teams pack the central areas and leave space out wide. The belief amongst City fans is that Navas is going to hug the touchline while everyone else is central and we're suddenly going to have much more space in the middle because someone will have to mark Navas. Wrong. Full backs will leave him out there, there's no reason to mark him, by the time a ball is sprayed out wide to him the full back will have had time to split from the CBs, the CBs will have shuffled across, and the danger will be averted. There's a reason why in our system players don't hug the touchline, it's because it's ineffective to do so.

What was noticeable against Arsenal was that we were determined to get the ball wide, keep the ball wide and put more crosses into the box. Whether this was a Pellegrini tactic, or whether this was a product of having two static strikers in the box and fewer options centrally is yet to be seen; I'll never know what Pellegrini instructed the boys to do, but should this pattern of play continue throughout the season it'll be evident that it's a tactical ploy. In this instance, Navas' value to the side will be increased. However, once Aguero returns - and Jovetic is integrated into the side - I expect play to be focused through the central areas again.

What Milner brings to the side? Well he's more intelligent for starters, he'll use the ball much more effectively and will play the percentages game. Years ago Milner was the type who'd run aimlessly down the wing into cul-de-sacs, a la Navas, but he's taken a lot of that out of his game and developed well as a footballer. Milner is also better technically and will score more goals. I'd be quite happy to see Milner play on the right ahead of Navas at times this season, but Navas deserves the chance to prove himself. Milner proved himself last season, he was one of our best performers, imo the pressure's all on Navas. As I've said before, and a few have also highlighted here, Navas will provide us with much quicker counter attacks and transitions, which will be essential in the big European games.
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I feel you're incredibly harsh on Navas, who isn't nearly as dumb as you're saying and uses the ball with much more intelligence than Milner. I have no idea what James Milner you've watched, because the one who has played the games does not play a particularly intelligent game. Milner has basically one move on the wing, which is to get the ball past the FB by hook or by crook, then fire a not particularly well aimed cross into the area. He doesn't take the ball to the end line, he certainly doesn't cut inside with his left foot, and if by some miracle he finds himself at the outer edge of the 18, he isn't a threat to score. He scored 4 goals in 27 last season, and according to Transfermarket, he scored 2 of those when deployed as a CM. I have no idea where you came up with him being a goal threat, but it wasn't based off of his performances.

Teams are more than willing to leave Milner acres of space out wide because they know the only thing he'll do with it is cross. They close down the triangle to take away more dangerous options and let him run at them. To some extent, this is true of all wide players, but Milner isn't particularly good at any of this. And I LIKE Milner, I think he's a very good squad player, he's just not the player you're making him out to be and he's definitely not more intelligent or a better user of the ball than Navas.
 
Gaylord du Bois said:
By returning 10 to 15 goals per season off his own boot and the same in assists.
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I'm not a huge fan of stats but last season Milner had more goals+assists combined than Navas did, and Navas played 12 games more. #CalmTheNavasHype
 
Where Navas is an out and out wide man, Jimmy Milner is......well, I wouldn't play him as a central defender, for obvious reasons and I don't think he could be a striker, but I'd play him everywhere and anywhere else; well, not in goal of course. I think Jimmy would flourish as a number 8. I really do. The lad's shit hot.
 
hallstreetblue said:
Where Navas is an out and out wide man, Jimmy Milner is......well, I wouldn't play him as a central defender, for obvious reasons and I don't think he could be a striker, but I'd play him everywhere and anywhere else; well, not in goal of course. I think Jimmy would flourish as a number 8. I really do. The lad's shit hot.
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I'm not sure if we should play him in central midfield. He dribbles in a very straight line. Someone said earlier that we should try him on the left wing? It sounds like a good idea if he knows how to cut inside effectively. Navas on the right and Milner on the left? It could open up a whole new dimension to his game.
 
Milner is class, Navas is class and Rodwell is a genuine talent. We do not need to slag off one player while lauding another especially when it is clear that they are players who most premiership teams would relish.

We are aiming to compete well in all competitions this year so there is game time a plenty for all concerned. It would also be unwise for someone like Rodwell to play more than 35 games a season at this stage given his recent issues.
 
Sometimes it is not just a stat - assist or chance created - but what the player does to the balance and how they effect the other team. Having a genuine wide threat with pace will lead to teams havnig to defend more honestly against us and not tuckk the full backs in creating more space in other areas of the pitch. In other games, we need the balance that Milner will give in terms of cover for the right back - against Bale or Ribery for example.

Again it is a great sign that we dont just have 2 quality players for most positions, but also that the 2 players have different strengths.
 
I reckon Navas will only start when we play 'lesser' team at home. Otherwise he'll be the eternal sub coming on to stretch the game and build up our goal difference when we are 2 or 3 up and the opposition is knackered.
 
Bigga said:
Makes me wonder how much you actually know of Milner before he came to City...??

His main strengths are actually in midfield, but with Barry occupying a similar position to Milner's natural strengths, it seems logical to use JM's other bowstring of wide position/ winger(which he isn't, really).

My question now, to you, is should we then compare Jesús Navas to Milner in midfield...?

It would seem that it would be rather unfair to compare a player's secondary position to someone's primary; do you not think...??
Click to expand...


I realize I risk having my head bitten off but so be it.

I'm not sure how you can say Milner's primary position is as a central midfield player when in his entire career he's only played there for one season under one manager. Every other manager has used him as a winger.
 
If we had like for like players in each position, then I could see the comparison, but having 2 players for each position, with different skill sets, gives us far more incision when they are deployed at the correct time.
Navas is often played as a sub for Spain, his impact can be quite immediate, as the opponents have been lulled into the rotating in and out probing at their defences, Navas could be compared to an acupuncture needle, to the right area, it is a quick and deep incision which can give instant results,
Against Arsenal, not that effective, Bayern and AC Milan, very much so.
Fernandinho and Yaya give us either the option of cover for the position, or a 2 pronged partnership allowing each to take turns and hopefully, we won't get the exhausted looking Yaya half way thru the season!
It just needs some work, finding the balance, Pellegrini is an experienced manager, I will defer to his judgement, and trust him to get it right, and primarily, not to start imploding when it's not going right, but to bring the team thru any rocky patch.
 
milner is a fantastic player, always gives his all in every game for city.... never stops... navas is also a work pony will give pace where pace is needed... milner i feel is best suited in the middle of the park next to yaya but that once again is a personal opinion
 
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