How much will J.Navas improve the team over J.Milner?

[6one]

there's something slightly iffy when it's acceptable for people to call others "pricks" because they don't agree with them. sensible discussion.

I like James Milner, but if we're looking at his abilities as a footballer objectively it's impossible to draw any conclusion other than one which paints him as a dedicated yet limited footballer.

One particular frustration is his corner-kick delivery which all too often is awful. (Same for most players though)

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

there's something slightly iffy when it's acceptable for people to call others "pricks" because they don't agree with them. sensible discussion.

I like James Milner, but if we're looking at his abilities as a footballer objectively it's impossible to draw any conclusion other than one which paints him as a dedicated yet limited footballer.

One particular frustration is his corner-kick delivery which all too often is awful. (Same for most players though)

I didn't call you a prick I just said don't be one.
Although having said that,what will be will be I guess.

 

[bluethunder]

Milner is not a right winger. He's a central or right midfielder. I think we need to cash in on him and buy a proper winger, a versatile one that can also play on the left.

 

[Jutt]

Milner has had MOTM performances away to United, home to Spurs and home to Chelsea in the last few seasons. That tells you the lad is not just a run of the mill player. Milner is my second favourite player behind Agüero, the lad is class.

He isn't particularly fast or skilful but when he plays we are a better all round team.

What Navas will bring is pace ofthe bench away at other top sides (because I feel Milner's qualities are essential in games like this) and in his starts he will add much needed pace and a change from defence to attack that we've not seen for a good while.

What does that have anything to do with THIS season?


Nothing at all.


Navas is the better player. He starts.

 

[Rocket Sauce]

There's room for both in the squad. Don't see the need to pit players (especially one's who aren't even similar in style) against each other.

James Milner is a quality player. Glad to have him in the squad and I'm sure that Pellegrini will get the best out of him. Same goes for Jesus Navas. We're lucky to have both!

 

[chris85mcfc]

Every squad needs a James Milner. Someone that can play pretty much anywhere and still be a 7/10.

He is never going to give you something special to win you a game but he will do all the nitty-gritty to allow the more technical players to do their thing.

 

[ell]

Navas is a winger Milner is a central midfielder who gets played on the wing. Fingers crossed Navas will mean Milner is pushed inside

 

[6one]

Every squad needs a James Milner. Someone that can play pretty much anywhere and still be a 7/10.

He is never going to give you something special to win you a game but he will do all the nitty-gritty to allow the more technical players to do their thing.

Nobody is saying there's no room for him. There's room for Barry.

But there is no room for them in the strongest 11 to take on Europe.

 

[eddiemarin09]

Milner has had MOTM performances away to United, home to Spurs and home to Chelsea in the last few seasons. That tells you the lad is not just a run of the mill player. Milner is my second favourite player behind Agüero, the lad is class.

He isn't particularly fast or skilful but when he plays we are a better all round team.

What Navas will bring is pace ofthe bench away at other top sides (because I feel Milner's qualities are essential in games like this) and in his starts he will add much needed pace and a change from defence to attack that we've not seen for a good while.

What does that have anything to do with THIS season?


Nothing at all.


Navas is the better player. He starts.

Every squad needs a James Milner. Someone that can play pretty much anywhere and still be a 7/10.

He is never going to give you something special to win you a game but he will do all the nitty-gritty to allow the more technical players to do their thing.

Nobody is saying there's no room for him. There's room for Barry.

But there is no room for them in the strongest 11 to take on Europe.

I agree with these two..navas starts its not insulting Milner it just shows the quality of navas

 

[Deleted member 52846]

Every squad needs a James Milner. Someone that can play pretty much anywhere and still be a 7/10.

He is never going to give you something special to win you a game but he will do all the nitty-gritty to allow the more technical players to do their thing.

He has given us something special to win us games a few times. Against very good teams too.

 

[Joburg Hero]

I hate to say it, but come May 2014, we'll all be quite sick of Navas. He's hugely frustrating, and while he will provide the width that many City fans have craved for years, he's not a good enough, or intelligent enough player to provide a genuinely top class option out wide. He's so quick, but it's one thing being quick, and one thing knowing how to use it. He beats a man on the outside and delivers a cross a few times per game, but the number of times he'll brainlessly run himself into dead ends is heartbreaking. His delivery is ok, nothing to shout about, but I do expect him to pick up a fair few assists by virtue of his pace and fairly good delivery alone.

As we're all aware, we play a very distinct, compact game, focused on central areas. In turn, teams pack the central areas and leave space out wide. The belief amongst City fans is that Navas is going to hug the touchline while everyone else is central and we're suddenly going to have much more space in the middle because someone will have to mark Navas. Wrong. Full backs will leave him out there, there's no reason to mark him, by the time a ball is sprayed out wide to him the full back will have had time to split from the CBs, the CBs will have shuffled across, and the danger will be averted. There's a reason why in our system players don't hug the touchline, it's because it's ineffective to do so.

Yep, frighteningly accurate. Navas was absolute rubbish against Cardiff and I've got a feeling there's plenty more of that to come. A whole game where he was void of ideas, running down the line aimlessly; half the time crossing to nobody. People thought he'd bring us width but as I suggested above, it simply doesn't work like that when faced with a side that puts men behind the ball.

 

[Joehannes]

I hate to say it, but come May 2014, we'll all be quite sick of Navas. He's hugely frustrating, and while he will provide the width that many City fans have craved for years, he's not a good enough, or intelligent enough player to provide a genuinely top class option out wide. He's so quick, but it's one thing being quick, and one thing knowing how to use it. He beats a man on the outside and delivers a cross a few times per game, but the number of times he'll brainlessly run himself into dead ends is heartbreaking. His delivery is ok, nothing to shout about, but I do expect him to pick up a fair few assists by virtue of his pace and fairly good delivery alone.

As we're all aware, we play a very distinct, compact game, focused on central areas. In turn, teams pack the central areas and leave space out wide. The belief amongst City fans is that Navas is going to hug the touchline while everyone else is central and we're suddenly going to have much more space in the middle because someone will have to mark Navas. Wrong. Full backs will leave him out there, there's no reason to mark him, by the time a ball is sprayed out wide to him the full back will have had time to split from the CBs, the CBs will have shuffled across, and the danger will be averted. There's a reason why in our system players don't hug the touchline, it's because it's ineffective to do so.

Yep, frighteningly accurate. Navas was absolute rubbish against Cardiff and I've got a feeling there's plenty more of that to come. A whole game where he was void of ideas, running down the line aimlessly; half the time crossing to nobody. People thought he'd bring us width but as I suggested above, it simply doesn't work like that when faced with a side that puts men behind the ball.

He created a couple of good chances, IIRC.

 

[pee dubya]

I hate to say it, but come May 2014, we'll all be quite sick of Navas. He's hugely frustrating, and while he will provide the width that many City fans have craved for years, he's not a good enough, or intelligent enough player to provide a genuinely top class option out wide. He's so quick, but it's one thing being quick, and one thing knowing how to use it. He beats a man on the outside and delivers a cross a few times per game, but the number of times he'll brainlessly run himself into dead ends is heartbreaking. His delivery is ok, nothing to shout about, but I do expect him to pick up a fair few assists by virtue of his pace and fairly good delivery alone.

As we're all aware, we play a very distinct, compact game, focused on central areas. In turn, teams pack the central areas and leave space out wide. The belief amongst City fans is that Navas is going to hug the touchline while everyone else is central and we're suddenly going to have much more space in the middle because someone will have to mark Navas. Wrong. Full backs will leave him out there, there's no reason to mark him, by the time a ball is sprayed out wide to him the full back will have had time to split from the CBs, the CBs will have shuffled across, and the danger will be averted. There's a reason why in our system players don't hug the touchline, it's because it's ineffective to do so.

Yep, frighteningly accurate. Navas was absolute rubbish against Cardiff and I've got a feeling there's plenty more of that to come. A whole game where he was void of ideas, running down the line aimlessly; half the time crossing to nobody. People thought he'd bring us width but as I suggested above, it simply doesn't work like that when faced with a side that puts men behind the ball.

He created a couple of good chances, IIRC.

I was always extremely skeptical of the assertion that pace would help us break down these teams that are all sitting behind the ball. What good is pace with no space to run into?

Width yes, quality delivery into the box yes, pace no. Pace is needed for counter-attacking, not breaking down tightly packed defences.

Anyway, i think over the course of the season Navas will be a very influential player, but like all wingers, there will be some games that he just doesn't get in to.

 

[Mr Ed (The Stables)]

Yep, frighteningly accurate. Navas was absolute rubbish against Cardiff and I've got a feeling there's plenty more of that to come. A whole game where he was void of ideas, running down the line aimlessly; half the time crossing to nobody. People thought he'd bring us width but as I suggested above, it simply doesn't work like that when faced with a side that puts men behind the ball.

He created a couple of good chances, IIRC.

I was always extremely skeptical of the assertion that pace would help us break down these teams that are all sitting behind the ball. What good is pace with no space to run into?

Width yes, quality delivery into the box yes, pace no. Pace is needed for counter-attacking, not breaking down tightly packed defences.

Anyway, i think over the course of the season Navas will be a very influential player, but like all wingers, there will be some games that he just doesn't get in to.

This is why a winger who is quick but with the ability to drop a shoulder, have a trick or two like Peter Barnes is miles better than just a speed merchant with little skill. Not saying Nevas is that but he needs to bring another string to his bow a step over or two to try and create that half a yard of space needed to cross the ball, when things are tight like Sunday.

 

[weare8kyk]

I hate to say it, but come May 2014, we'll all be quite sick of Navas. He's hugely frustrating, and while he will provide the width that many City fans have craved for years, he's not a good enough, or intelligent enough player to provide a genuinely top class option out wide. He's so quick, but it's one thing being quick, and one thing knowing how to use it. He beats a man on the outside and delivers a cross a few times per game, but the number of times he'll brainlessly run himself into dead ends is heartbreaking. His delivery is ok, nothing to shout about, but I do expect him to pick up a fair few assists by virtue of his pace and fairly good delivery alone.

As we're all aware, we play a very distinct, compact game, focused on central areas. In turn, teams pack the central areas and leave space out wide. The belief amongst City fans is that Navas is going to hug the touchline while everyone else is central and we're suddenly going to have much more space in the middle because someone will have to mark Navas. Wrong. Full backs will leave him out there, there's no reason to mark him, by the time a ball is sprayed out wide to him the full back will have had time to split from the CBs, the CBs will have shuffled across, and the danger will be averted. There's a reason why in our system players don't hug the touchline, it's because it's ineffective to do so.

Yep, frighteningly accurate. Navas was absolute rubbish against Cardiff and I've got a feeling there's plenty more of that to come. A whole game where he was void of ideas, running down the line aimlessly; half the time crossing to nobody. People thought he'd bring us width but as I suggested above, it simply doesn't work like that when faced with a side that puts men behind the ball.

I disagree 100%, the problem is not Navas break down defence, is when he does that we will need people to get into places where he can pass the ball. I remember a few times in Cardiff game when Navas break down in the rightside but only to find Silva or Zaba to pass. Imagine he find YaYa or Kun or Jovetic. Players need to know each other more.
I will suggest YaYa or Fer to push up a bit more when attack, fire a few long range shot, I though one of the strong points of Fer is his longshot. Also try a few more long balls when facing 11 people in its own half.

 

[the god Gerry Gow]

Am not sure and haven't been for years why full backs/midfield insist on giving the ball to wingers (lightening quick or super slow) in front of the opposition full back.

Draw your man and play the ball behind the full back to your winger who is already running. The other option being, one that I was always disappointed SWP never used, is if you are lightening quick draw your opposite number upfield then play the ball into the space yourself. It's a foot race then.

 

[Pringletelli]

I think Cardiff played him very well, making the full back and winger double up on him. This forced him onto his left so he kept passing back to Zaba who would either cross it in for the CBs to swallow up or pass it inside back into the congested midfield. I think he'll be brilliant at home, we'll have enough opportunities and space for him to have an effect but away from home teams will do the same as Cardiff. Maybe the solution is to play another person on the wing to tire a fullback out, James Milner does this well with his endless running! Then in the second half, almost at the point when we took Navas off, bring him on and let him do his damage.

It's a shame to say that he is a very one-dimensional player and he'll be frustrating at times, but when used correctly he'll be lethal.

 

[Metodscaeft DeadBlue]

Navas plays like a wide version of Silva. Milner's true position is in the centre of the park behind Silva. Completely different players.

But, we do play different formations and therefore would need different suited players. I think though once Jovetic is back then Milner may be forced further down the pecking order IF Nasri stays. I don't see how Milner could fit easily into any of our formations though if I'm to be honest. Even as much as I like him.

Look at what Navas did against Newcastle in the first half. He was coming into the central areas and added speed to a place we never had speed. Similar to a Gareth Bale type role. Navas will be our new magician.

 

[Jumanji]

Look at what Navas did against Newcastle in the first half. He was coming into the central areas and added speed to a place we never had speed. Similar to a Gareth Bale type role. Navas will be our new magician.

That's because Navas had space to work in. Also, Pablo wasn't occupying his space as much like against Cardiff.

Against the park bus of Cardiff, a tactic he's almost never had to face, he looked quite ineffective, ran into dead ends, and was physically bullied.

Navas was supposed to be the key to unlocking the parked busses, but I'm not so sure. Yes he has great pace but what use is it if there no space to use his pace?

That's why I think against parked busses, Navas would be better utilised as a super sub, to work tired fullbacks, and force them to adjust to a new point of attack that try hadn't had to think about for the whole game. Reckon that will unsettle fullbacks, just like AJ as a sub did, and Navas is superior.

All in all I don't think Navas will be the key to unlocking parked busses but more so give us the counter attacking threat we've lacked for years, an absolutely vital weapon in the Champions League.

 

[ped]

I see all the football experts are out in force,let me know when you are next out masterminding the next dog and duck, masterclass,love to see how it should be done,i know its people talking football shit ,but ffs we have had people knocking ,ya ya kun ,well every one really and now navas,we got done on set play,people made mistakes ,cut the kneejerk ,we will be fine,