Hyde Road Stadium

[petrusha]

What became the dog track was also a site looked at by City. In fact I’m convinced that was the preference for years.

I appreciate that this might well have been dealt with in more detail in some of the historical City literature, most prominently your own. However, my collection of City books resides at my mum's place while I'm abroad so I'm limited in terms of access to material about this.

Anyway, I've long wondered about this, in fact since I saw someone post on Twitter (I think) some years back a scan of a newspaper report from 1913 about City supposedly planning a move to Belle Vue. But the story referenced Mount Road and not Kirkmanshulme Lane, which was always the official address of the dog track, so I thought it was probably a different site.

Looking now at Google Maps, I see that the dog track nestles between Mount Road and Kirkmanshulme Lane. Based on what you say, I assume it actually is that site. I remember that we had a previous exchange about why they eventually disregarded this option, which I've not managed to find searching back through my posts on here (maybe it was on Twitter). I seem to recall you suggested that the maximum capacity would have been around 70K, and the club wanted more.

It always struck me that, while many Blues today regard Maine Road as a spiritual home, it must have been a hell of a shock for fans in the early 1920s to find we were uprooting to move to Moss Side. If there'd been a forum back then that allowed for such an easy exchange of views as this one does now, I bet it would have been inundated with postings of absolute disgust!

 

[Gary James]

Hi Gary can I ask how many books have you written, and are they all still available for purchase.

Here‘s a list:

About Dr Gary James

Gary James is a Honorary Research Fellow at De Montfort University. He has written extensively on football, with his current research focusing on female participation and involvement in the sport. Since the 1990s, he has gathered oral testimony from females directors, administrative staff...

gjfootballarchive.com

Most are out of print now but you can still pick them up secondhand. Two books (Manchester A Football History and my first book From Maine Men To Banana Citizens), plus lots of my other writing is now available to subscribers to my website. Monthly subscription is £3 per month (cancel anytime, so you could subscribe, get what you need then cancel but I guess I shouldn’t say that!) or you can pay £20 a year.

There are history talks (I’m doing one online tonight re 2005-2009 for free), interviews (audio and written) plus other stuff.

Details of tonight’s talk:

Next Free History Talk: Manchester City 2005 to 2009 on 29 March

I’m delighted to say I’ll be performing the next free online History Talk on Wednesday 29 March at 6pm until 7pm. This talk will be on Manchester City FC between 2005 to 2009. It’…

gjfootballarchive.com

You can see what you think too by watching an earlier talk on Maine Rd and fans here:

Video of my online talk on history of MCFC Support/Match Day at Maine Road

Earlier today (Saturday March 5 at 3pm UK time) I did an online talk/presentation on the history of Manchester City's support and match day at Maine Road. It was a celebration of fans and a reminder of Maine Road. I've now posted below a free to view video of the talk for anyone to watch...…

gjfootballarchive.com

I hope this all helps. Cheers

 

[Gary James]

Actually, if I can butt in here, The City Years is indicated on Amazon as being out of print. Any plans for a reprint? (I can get a second-hand copy but I just like my books to be new…oh, and I don't do Kindle).

Sorry. I can’t find a publisher willing to take a gamble on it. It’s an expensive book to produce and I funded it myself last time to ensure I could get it out there.I’d love to update it.

My Peter Barnes biography was funded by me as well and bookshops simply won’t take it, claiming a City/Utd player from all those years ago wouldn’t sell! Not yet broken even on that, so financially these things are a gamble.

 

[dario2739]

Any city players ?

Frank Booth (outside left) – carried off injured... Part of the team that won the FA Cup in 1903/04 and finished runners-up in the league.
He's buried in Denton, died in 1919 with a tumour on his heart aged only 37.

 

[Gary James]

Was thinking you'd need more photographs to be able to accurately (as possible) recreate the ground... but wouldn't planning permission have been needed when the ground was built... and therefore plans submitted – if so, would they be held in the records (hopefully not destroyed in the war)?

I have photos of every stand at Hyde Rd and have recently helped an artist who is painting the venue. When I get chance I’ll post something significant on my website about the place or maybe my next free online history talk (after I’ve done tonight’s of course) should be about it? I could show images, tell it’s full story, use stuff I’ve got from interviews I did years ago with fans who attended the old place?

At one point they considered turning the pitch 45 degrees and claimed they could build an 80,000 capacity stadium there. The well regarded ground architect Archibald Leitch (who designed OT and those double deckers at Goodison, Roker Park, Hampden etc.) was given an office at the ground to design the new version.

 

[Gary James]

Gary James will probably be able to varify, but i'd guess that was for "Manchester Central".

It is. I included that image in Manchester A Football History.

 

[Gary James]

Manchester football club.mfc.

If you look carefully there is a large C overlapping the M and a smaller C under the F for Manchester Central FC

 

[Gary James]

Some photos of The Hyde Road Hotel.
Can't believe I can't find one of The City Gates.
The 2nd picture must have been after 1967 as it has the Whitbread sign.
The City Gates opened early 80"s so assuming the 3rd picture is from the 90's going off the posters stuck to the boards
View attachment 73392View attachment 73393View attachment 73394

Here you go…. This is one I took and then used in my first book published in 1989. I took it from a similar angle to the earlier photo above specifically so I could do a comparison. I was surprised that the pedestrian crossing was still there (and it still is now - you can still see some of the original bricks and stones if you wander the site).

Bugger! I’m having problems attaching the image! Watch this space.

 

[Gary James]

Any city players ?

Yes Dorsett and Burgess plus look out for City trainer Jimmy Broad (with towel) and at one point you can see our manager Tom Maley walking in front of the main stand. I used this in my Boys In Blue talks and highlighted them all as part of it. Broad is a real character.

Oh and our first chairman John Edward Chapman (who died while still chairman) is on the touch line near Maley.

Chapman looks like this:

True Blues – John Chapman

Continuing the weekly series of 'True Blue' figures associated with the early years of Manchester City, here's an article on the City chairman John Chapman who died in office. You can find out why this man was such an important figure in Manchester City history below: Subscriber Content John...

gjfootballarchive.com

Maley looks like this:

True Blues – Tom Maley

Continuing the weekly series of 'True Blue' figures associated with the early years of Manchester City, here's an article on the first manager to bring major trophy success to Manchester - Tom Maley. You can find out why this man was such an important figure in Manchester City history below...

gjfootballarchive.com

And Broad looks like this (though about ten years older):

The Sporting Broads: A Family’s Journey from Pedestrianism to Football

By the time professional football came to prominence as the leading working class sporting activity in the late nineteenth century the sport of pedestrianism was in decline. Pedestrians and trainers had to find alternative means of income and, for some, football provided a new focus for their...

gjfootballarchive.com

 

[pride in battle]

Yes Dorsett and Burgess plus look out for City trainer Jimmy Broad (with towel) and at one point you can see our manager Tom Maley walking in front of the main stand. I used this in my Boys In Blue talks and highlighted them all as part of it. Broad is a real character.

Oh and our first chairman John Edward Chapman (who died while still chairman) is on the touch line near Maley.

Chapman looks like this:

True Blues – John Chapman

Continuing the weekly series of 'True Blue' figures associated with the early years of Manchester City, here's an article on the City chairman John Chapman who died in office. You can find out why this man was such an important figure in Manchester City history below: Subscriber Content John...

gjfootballarchive.com

Maley looks like this:

True Blues – Tom Maley

Continuing the weekly series of 'True Blue' figures associated with the early years of Manchester City, here's an article on the first manager to bring major trophy success to Manchester - Tom Maley. You can find out why this man was such an important figure in Manchester City history below...

gjfootballarchive.com

And Broad looks like this (though about ten years older):

The Sporting Broads: A Family’s Journey from Pedestrianism to Football

By the time professional football came to prominence as the leading working class sporting activity in the late nineteenth century the sport of pedestrianism was in decline. Pedestrians and trainers had to find alternative means of income and, for some, football provided a new focus for their...

gjfootballarchive.com

Thanks Gary :)

 

[dario2739]

Here you go…. This is one I took and then used in my first book published in 1989. I took it from a similar angle to the earlier photo above specifically so I could do a comparison. I was surprised that the pedestrian crossing was still there (and it still is now - you can still see some of the original bricks and stones if you wander the site).

Bugger! I’m having problems attaching the image! Watch this space.

Re the Hyde Road Hotel Gary, any idea why it's so big at the back? The old maps seem to show a huge yard that extends to the back...

 

[Gary James]

Nevermind how many books..... has he ever been on Eggheads?

No, but I was asked to proof read some questions for Mastermind about 18 years ago on City. Sadly, they got the answers from one of those cheap ‘facts’ style books written by non-City fans to cash in and found another similar book which repeated the same shite. I explained they were full of errors but they replied ‘we only need two sources’. So it was somewhat frustrating.

Coincidentally, I was contacted by someone who was going on Mastermind that year asking which of my books to use for some research and i ended up having to recommend these two inaccurate books!

 

[Gary James]

I appreciate that this might well have been dealt with in more detail in some of the historical City literature, most prominently your own. However, my collection of City books resides at my mum's place while I'm abroad so I'm limited in terms of access to material about this.

Anyway, I've long wondered about this, in fact since I saw someone post on Twitter (I think) some years back a scan of a newspaper report from 1913 about City supposedly planning a move to Belle Vue. But the story referenced Mount Road and not Kirkmanshulme Lane, which was always the official address of the dog track, so I thought it was probably a different site.

Looking now at Google Maps, I see that the dog track nestles between Mount Road and Kirkmanshulme Lane. Based on what you say, I assume it actually is that site. I remember that we had a previous exchange about why they eventually disregarded this option, which I've not managed to find searching back through my posts on here (maybe it was on Twitter). I seem to recall you suggested that the maximum capacity would have been around 70K, and the club wanted more.

It always struck me that, while many Blues today regard Maine Road as a spiritual home, it must have been a hell of a shock for fans in the early 1920s to find we were uprooting to move to Moss Side. If there'd been a forum back then that allowed for such an easy exchange of views as this one does now, I bet it would have been inundated with postings of absolute disgust!

Yes to all of that. The dog track was built instead of a new ground for City but many people, including myself for years, assumed they were moving to the ‘speedway’ stadium and hadn’t considered Mount Rd until I found that stuff in 2000s. It seems both sites were actually considered.

 

[Gary James]

Frank Booth (outside left) – carried off injured... Part of the team that won the FA Cup in 1903/04 and finished runners-up in the league.
He's buried in Denton, died in 1919 with a tumour on his heart aged only 37.

View attachment 73406

His death is typically linked to WW1 impact and we included him in the special tribute a few years back by Sky. I took them to his grave at Denton cemetery.

 

[dario2739]

Frank Booth (outside left) – carried off injured... Part of the team that won the FA Cup in 1903/04 and finished runners-up in the league.
He's buried in Denton, died in 1919 with a tumour on his heart aged only 37.

View attachment 73406

...Apologies, this was from a match played earlier in the season at Ayresome Park

 

[Gary James]

Re the Hyde Road Hotel Gary, any idea why it's so big at the back? The old maps seem to show a huge yard that extends to the back...

View attachment 73408

Yes. It was built on a site that had previously been occupied by a house called White Cottage (or similar - all this is from my head not my notes). That site simply stretched back that far. When City we’re based at the pub there were temporary/low quality huts/buildings stretching up there selling stuff as part of the approach to the Popular Side terracing. It was known as The Croft in articles and was usually muddy.

 

[dario2739]

His death is typically linked to WW1 impact and we included him in the special tribute a few years back by Sky. I took them to his grave at Denton cemetery.

There's some great old photographs of the team when at Hyde Road... we need to bring back goalies wearing flat caps!

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

Here‘s a list:

About Dr Gary James

Gary James is a Honorary Research Fellow at De Montfort University. He has written extensively on football, with his current research focusing on female participation and involvement in the sport. Since the 1990s, he has gathered oral testimony from females directors, administrative staff...

gjfootballarchive.com

Most are out of print now but you can still pick them up secondhand. Two books (Manchester A Football History and my first book From Maine Men To Banana Citizens), plus lots of my other writing is now available to subscribers to my website. Monthly subscription is £3 per month (cancel anytime, so you could subscribe, get what you need then cancel but I guess I shouldn’t say that!) or you can pay £20 a year.

There are history talks (I’m doing one online tonight re 2005-2009 for free), interviews (audio and written) plus other stuff.

Details of tonight’s talk:

Next Free History Talk: Manchester City 2005 to 2009 on 29 March

I’m delighted to say I’ll be performing the next free online History Talk on Wednesday 29 March at 6pm until 7pm. This talk will be on Manchester City FC between 2005 to 2009. It’…

gjfootballarchive.com

You can see what you think too by watching an earlier talk on Maine Rd and fans here:

Video of my online talk on history of MCFC Support/Match Day at Maine Road

Earlier today (Saturday March 5 at 3pm UK time) I did an online talk/presentation on the history of Manchester City's support and match day at Maine Road. It was a celebration of fans and a reminder of Maine Road. I've now posted below a free to view video of the talk for anyone to watch...…

gjfootballarchive.com

I hope this all helps. Cheers

Mate, the work you've done on City's heritage is simply irreplaceable.
Forget Bert Trautmann, Billy Meredith, et al. Build a statue to Gary James ;-)

Many years ago, I supervised a piece of research on City by a young French student from Toulouse. It was a serious piece of work, he went over several times and carried out interviews, looked into archives and suchlike. I'm afraid I've forgotten his name, and lost touch with him after that. I do remember that the main thrust of his argument was that City's distant origins at St. Mark's lay in the whole “muscular Christianity” ethos of Victorian England. It was convincingly argued .
He told me he'd met you, of course. He also told me an interesting thing about talking to Sylvain Distin. Distin was looking musingly around the stands at Eastlands (as it then was), and then said, quite casually, “You know, this is a big club here. Its position doesn't reflect what it rightfully is.” I've embellished it, but it was definitely along those lines.
Sylvain, I raise a glass to you.

 

[Gary James]

For anyone interested there are some action shots and other images, including one of the King sat in the ‘royal box’, of Hyde Rd on my website. Here’s a link to everything referencing ‘Hyde’ (so you’ll get stuff about Hyde Utd too!):

Search Results for “Hyde” – Gary James' Football Archive

Football writing, thoughts and more by Gary James

gjfootballarchive.com

 

[Gary James]

There's some great old photographs of the team when at Hyde Road... we need to bring back goalies wearing flat caps!

View attachment 73409
View attachment 73410
View attachment 73411

The ones with the wall/building behind are taken behind the Main Stand looking towards Galloway’s. The ones with the stripes (blue/white) are in front of the Main Stand.