ID cards.

I'm With Stupid said:
Genuine question. Is there any evidence that countries with compulsory IDs have lower illegal immigration, benefit fraud or tax fraud? I've looked and I couldn't find any concrete evidence for their claimed benefits tbh. The only example I could find is that electronic IDs reduced some admin costs in Estonia. And other than that, the benefits were limited to very specific circumstances. Cracking down on illegal workers, for example, still relies on workplace inspections more than ID cards.
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Absolutely. Those who employ illegal workers know they're illegal, that's why they employ them. No workers rights or legislation to comply with and they can pay them peanuts. No further legislation will prevent it happening. That's when they roll out the next stage. A cashless society and digital currency.
 
This is what I don't get; for years employers have had a legal responsibility to check employees "right to work" documents. It's not a new thing by any measure.
The issue is with employers who, as others have stated, want to keep the wage bill down whilst also ignoring the "niceties" of employment legislation and paying income to the state.
I'm not against ID cards per se, but only if I can see the usefulness of any introduction. This isn't it, it will just be a load of money down the shitter.
Maybe they just think the optics are good for those who don't actually think it through or know what the labour market is actually like.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I've worked on government ID products and to share personal information across departments can be very tricky, as you have to have a data sharing agreement in place and those aren't easy to negotiate.
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Bringing different systems together would also be problematic. Likely a not work effectively or the cost will be astronomical.

I think some are mistaken if they think Govt are going to have one big database with all personal details.

I suspect Govt have a variety of suppliers that have produced different systems holding personal data (Plantir and NHS data and then you have Thales with the Passport information. I suspect this may be problematic for some information to be shared. maybe not. Someone on here would likely know far more than me about this issue.

I have been so busy with work, I have still not had a chance to find out more about the proposal.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
It's another dent to illegal workers and criminal gangs, its not a major deal. we just now live in a time where everyone has to be outraged by any government decision.
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I miss the days when most people would be more willing to listen to both sides and want to understand the issue before going off on mouth foaming rants. Mostly fuelled by far right opinion formers. Gone are the days of consensus. Without consensus, we are going nowhere as a country. The far right know this. That is another conversation altogether. I do not want to go off topic so that is the last I will say on the issue.
 
Manc in London said:
I miss the days when most people would be more willing to listen to both sides and want to understand the issue before going off on mouth foaming rants. Mostly fuelled by far right opinion formers. Gone are the days of consensus. Without consensus, we are going nowhere as a country. The far right know this. That is another conversation altogether. I do not want to go off topic so that is the last I will say on the issue.
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yep, exactly how i feel. social media has given a mouse a megaphone.
 
mackenzie said:
This is what I don't get; for years employers have had a legal responsibility to check employees "right to work" documents. It's not a new thing by any measure.
The issue is with employers who, as others have stated, want to keep the wage bill down whilst also ignoring the "niceties" of employment legislation and paying income to the state.
I'm not against ID cards per se, but only if I can see the usefulness of any introduction. This isn't it, it will just be a load of money down the shitter.
Maybe they just think the optics are good for those who don't actually think it through or know what the labour market is actually like.
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I’m struggling to see how it’s going to stop or help reduce illegal migrants from coming here. Most are currently paid cash in hand and don’t give any form of ID anyway.

As you say employers have always had the ability to check on one of their employees right to work.

People keep saying France is a great example of ID cards. The shadow/ illegal economy in France is enormous.

Feels like we are going to spend billions (during cuts to public spending) on essentially a gimmick.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
I’m struggling to see how it’s going to stop or help reduce illegal migrants from coming here. Most are currently paid cash in hand and don’t give any form of ID anyway.

As you say employers have always had the ability to check on one of their employees right to work.

People keep saying France is a great example of ID cards. The shadow/ illegal economy in France is enormous.

Feels like we are going to spend billions (during cuts to public spending) on essentially a gimmick.
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"Gimmick" is the word that sprang to my mind too
 
paulchapo said:
ID cards will be the precursor to digital id and then everybody will be fucked. On a whim they can just turn off your whole life unless you comply with whatever the state demands. You won't be able to buy even a pint of milk as your credit card will be frozen and cash will no longer be accepted. You can't even use cash now inside the Etihad and countless other places. Lockdowns will be easier to impose as they will just ensure your id and credit cards won't work outside the exclusion zone. Easy peasy. We are sleepwalking into a dystopian nightmare. This bloke gets hammered but almost everything he has ever predicted has happened.

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Did we not learn from all those other European countries that have id cards? all that happened to them ffs! God learn the lesson from othe......

What none of that happened?

Cuckoo
 
BobKowalski said:
There’s going to be a lot of tedious bollocks about this isn’t there?

I have a photo drivers licence, passport, Apple Pay with credit, debit cards and store cards on my phone and watch and barely use cash. Digital ID wallets and cards are coming in Europe and yes, it is for citizen convenience and also a means of monitoring and tracking, which given most people carry a phone, use cards to pay for stuff and are captured by CCTV both public and private it is probably a bit late to start moaning about Govt surveillance.

And given all the folk moaning will be the same ones moaning about who we let into the country and allow to ‘disappear’, well make your fucking minds up because the whining when we don’t do something and then the whining when we do actually do something is getting on my tits.

This is going to be a wall to wall shitfest of hot garbage in the media, so I’m bowing out and leaving you all to it :)
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You have all that and can still buy milk?
 
Couldn’t really care less in principle but like most things most governments do, the implementation is bound to cost twice as much and be half as arsed as promised.

Look at the shite covid app and how much that cost.
 
paulchapo said:
ID cards will be the precursor to digital id and then everybody will be fucked. On a whim they can just turn off your whole life unless you comply with whatever the state demands. You won't be able to buy even a pint of milk as your credit card will be frozen and cash will no longer be accepted. You can't even use cash now inside the Etihad and countless other places. Lockdowns will be easier to impose as they will just ensure your id and credit cards won't work outside the exclusion zone. Easy peasy. We are sleepwalking into a dystopian nightmare. This bloke gets hammered but almost everything he has ever predicted has happened.

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I can’t work out if you’re taking the piss or not, but if you’re being serious then you do know who David Icke is, right?
 
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