IF Shay Given was English would Hart be Englands Number 1?

[bluemoon32]

I don't know too much about Italian managers, but I'm guessing distribution is a huge deal for them and someone had figures on here last season that Given was and by some margin the worst in the Prem League.

His "poor" distribution has been exagerated by many as a reason why Given shouldn't be started, Hart's isn't exactly any where near first class, and Given's distribution in the Irish game on Fri was excellent.

Speaking of that game, one of which he did really well in (not like anyone saw it) Liam Brady said before hand, while they were discussing the worry of not having our top players start in the Prem, that while Keane's was down to having better players ahead of him, Given's, he felt, had more to do with Hart being English than anything. So, well we're not alone really.

And what nationality is Mr Brady lol.
It's the Irish that seem to be using the nationality issue regarding these two players, Hart is the better keeper imo and i'm glad he's our no-1, i would feel the same if he was from Outer Mongolia.

 

[IrishMacca]

His "poor" distribution has been exagerated by many as a reason why Given shouldn't be started, Hart's isn't exactly any where near first class, and Given's distribution in the Irish game on Fri was excellent.

Speaking of that game, one of which he did really well in (not like anyone saw it) Liam Brady said before hand, while they were discussing the worry of not having our top players start in the Prem, that while Keane's was down to having better players ahead of him, Given's, he felt, had more to do with Hart being English than anything. So, well we're not alone really.

And what nationality is Mr Brady lol.
It's the Irish that seem to be using the nationality issue regarding these two players, Hart is the better keeper imo and i'm glad he's our no-1, i would feel the same if he was from Outer Mongolia.

"Mr Brady" had no problem saying that Keane deservedly wasn't top choice at Spurs and was behind a few strikers. So the theory, especailly if ya ever hear the pundits, of Irish just backing Irish for the sake of it, is wrong.

He seems to know what he's talking about most of the time.

 

[DontLookBackInAnger]

And what nationality is Mr Brady lol.
It's the Irish that seem to be using the nationality issue regarding these two players, Hart is the better keeper imo and i'm glad he's our no-1, i would feel the same if he was from Outer Mongolia.

"Mr Brady" had no problem saying that Keane deservedly wasn't top choice at Spurs and was behind a few strikers.

He seems to know what he's talking about most of the time.

In fairness there are some things you can say and get away with such as Given is better than Hart and there are some things you can say sich as Keane should be playing that are simply supid. However just because he isn't going to say something stupid doesn't mean he is being fair either.

 

[IrishMacca]

"Mr Brady" had no problem saying that Keane deservedly wasn't top choice at Spurs and was behind a few strikers.

He seems to know what he's talking about most of the time.

In fairness there are some things you can say and get away with such as Given is better than Hart and there are some things you can say sich as Keane should be playing that are simply supid. However just because he isn't going to say something stupid doesn't mean he is being fair either.

They're not biased though, far from it and would be quicker to have a go at the Irish team/set up..etc than others, as they've proved, but they're fair.
They don't make comments for the sake of it.

 

[DontLookBackInAnger]

In fairness there are some things you can say and get away with such as Given is better than Hart and there are some things you can say sich as Keane should be playing that are simply supid. However just because he isn't going to say something stupid doesn't mean he is being fair either.

They're not biased though, far from it and would be quicker to have a go at the Irish team/set up..etc than others, as they've proved, but they're fair.
They don't make comments for the sake of it.

I dont have any issue with someone saying Given is a better keeper, none at all my issue starts when people want to then justify someone elses actions by saying that its because he is Irish that he is not playing. Brady frankly has no idea(nor do any of us for that matter)Given might have gone into the manager office and said here is the score I really dont want to play week in week out but I love the money stick me on the bench. I very much doubt thats what happened but it might have.

 

[SWP's back]

So why do the only people I know that think Given should be no1 all happen to be Irish?

 

[leighton]

Take away nationality from it. You have a keeper in Given who has preformed week in week out for the best part of 10-12 seasons who never let down the team down to date with how he has played. Roll back to the start of last season and Given by all on hear was a top class goalkeeper you dont go shit over night. Joe has come on in leaps and bounds there is no doubting about it. It is a hard call but seems very harsh on Shay to go from starter to sitting on the bench.

Right lets be fair when you have 2 top class keepers in a squad how long will it take for them to be pissed off. We wont concede many goals with the team we have a decent back 4 in front of the keeper will help in that. So in my view if Joe concedes 3-4 goals in a game there will be some people who will want Given in ahead of him straight away. Thats not fair on Joe he deserves a chance to make a couple of mistakes and not worry about Given coming in to replace him. That is the main reason why the 2 wont be able to work for the club. Shay will head up to Celtic if he cant get in the team by January. It just means now whoever is playing the pressure will get to them this season and it is who handles that the better that will be our number 1. Joes in the driving seat I think since he has the jersey he deserves it even IF origianlly I thought that he got the number 1 spot but didnt deserve it as Given did nothing wrong and it should of been up to Joe to take the jersey off him. Not given to him at the start of the season.

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

Given is far too limited to be considered a top class goalie, there are elements of his game that are of sunday league standard. A good keeper no doubt, but it's too easy for the opposition to get simple crosses anywhere in our box safe in the knowledge that Shay will be glued to his line

Fair play for him fighting for his place though, top man

 

[ono]

given is too poor in the air , this cost goals , and he is a shame to kick the ball .

i really cant understand what some people see in him as keeper. for me he is overrated just becouse has played in shit teams where had a lot shot to stop , and shotstopping is his only one good point. definitely not a keeper for a top team.

Thats bullshit. IF City were willing to sell Shay to our rivals I would see Arsenal come in for him straight away but City wont sell to a rival. Thats why Bellers is at Cardiff if we were willing to sell to a rival he could be at Spurs now.

It's not bullshit. We can all see it. Given doesn't come for crosses. Hart does. That aside, they are probably fairly equal. But Hart is younger, and we'll lose more from losing him than we would from losing Given. It's perfectly simple. If Given was a commanding keeper, aswell as being as good as he is in other areas, he wouldn't have spent the majority of his career at Newcastle.

 

[leighton]

Given is far too limited to be considered a top class goalie, there are elements of his game that are of sunday league standard. A good keeper no doubt, but it's too easy for the opposition to get simple crosses anywhere in our box safe in the knowledge that Shay will be glued to his line

Fair play for him fighting for his place though, top man

Hes lacking height maybe but to say he isnt a top class keeper is a bit of a slap in his face. Given has always been 1 of the best keepers in this league over the years. I would of classed Reina and Van Der Sarr just ahead of Shay over the years.

Regarding crosses into the box the defence knows that Shay wont come so should be able to deal with it. How many goals has Shay conceded from crosses compared to Hart any stats on that as it would be worth a look. Just because the keeper comes for crosses doesnt mean they always collect them all the time also the full backs should be cutting out some of the wide men before they put it in.