IF Shay Given was English would Hart be Englands Number 1?

[The Fat el Hombre]

I think staying at Newcastle for so long cost him and if he'd been at a better club he would have worked on crosses and other weaker parts of his game but he was stuck in a comfort zone. I think Given was told to come out and claim crosses more often when Mancini came in but the results weren't so great - the Stoke throw-in where he went to claim it, fell well short and they scored springs to mind.

I think it's a bit too late in the day now for Shay to get up to scratch on the weak areas of his game

Leighton I think Shay's a very good keeper but not in the same league as VDS and Reina as they simply have a much more rounded game and more strings to their bow. I'm just not having at that someone can be classed as a top keeper when they are so poor at crucial aspects of goalkeeping and have such gaping holes in their game.

 

[leighton]

Well for someone who is so poor at the crucial aspects of the game he has done very well to play at the high standard of football he has been playing for years. Dont forget during his time at Newcastle in the early years they got to 2 FA Cup finals and even played in the Champions league with Shay in goal. So to me that says his game isnt as flawed as some make out.

As I said the club is in a great position with the 2 keepers but I cant see them being at the club together this time next year. Shay will move on if he cant break into the team and I respect him for that he needs games will end up at Celtic as the club wont sell to our rivals.

 

[dave_blue12]

If Shay is so great why didn't a top side sign him ?

The answer is - he's not so great ! Even now when Arsenal need a keeper Wenger wants Schwartzer not Given.

Decent keeper no more for me.

Joe Hart all the way !

 

[IrishMacca]

Well for someone who is so poor at the crucial aspects of the game he has done very well to play at the high standard of football he has been playing for years. Dont forget during his time at Newcastle in the early years they got to 2 FA Cup finals and even played in the Champions league with Shay in goal. So to me that says his game isnt as flawed as some make out.

As I said the club is in a great position with the 2 keepers but I cant see them being at the club together this time next year. Shay will move on if he cant break into the team and I respect him for that he needs games will end up at Celtic as the club wont sell to our rivals.

The reason why so many read into Shay's flaws, is so they can give more of a reason to start Hart and exagerate his strengths. Hart has weaknesses (despite what many of them seem to think.) and they will be exposed, just like any other player.

 

[leighton]

If Shay is so great why didn't a top side sign him ?

The answer is - he's not so great ! Even now when Arsenal need a keeper Wenger wants Schwartzer not Given.

Decent keeper no more for me.

Joe Hart all the way !

The club wont let him go to a rival team its as simple as that like with Bellers.

Well for someone who is so poor at the crucial aspects of the game he has done very well to play at the high standard of football he has been playing for years. Dont forget during his time at Newcastle in the early years they got to 2 FA Cup finals and even played in the Champions league with Shay in goal. So to me that says his game isnt as flawed as some make out.

As I said the club is in a great position with the 2 keepers but I cant see them being at the club together this time next year. Shay will move on if he cant break into the team and I respect him for that he needs games will end up at Celtic as the club wont sell to our rivals.

The reason why so many read into Shay's flaws, is so they can give more of a reason to start Hart and exagerate his strengths. Hart has weaknesses (despite what many of them seem to think.) and they will be exposed, just like any other player.

I know it seems to be a urban legend or myth. Goalkeeping has changed so much that the keepers are told to punch the ball away rather than catch the ball. Madness if you ask me.

 

[alera]

This is getting so boring. Hart is bigger stronger, younger. He can come for crosses and dominate the box and has a long time to improve.

There really is no argument looking at it logically. The Irish conspiracy theorists need to go back to their standard Irish - English hatred and find another angle.

This is simply based on what is better for the club in the long term nothing to do with his nationality hes there on ability and long term best interests of the club. Given is what 34 at the end of the day ?

Really Hart is very unlucky to have let any goals in at all this season. The goal in the international wasnt over the line and against Sunderland it was down to a penalty given away by Richards being shit. So whats the problem ? Hes faultless so far.

Given had the option of going to Fulham and turned it down - quite rightly so IMO. If he keeps his mouth shut he will get games and has a good chance of winning something, something he has failed to do so far in his career.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Hart is starting to get that 'something' about him which only great keepers have. He was nowhere it at the start of last seaon but he is now. Schmeichel had it, Pat Jennings had it, Hart is starting to get it.

Given, Seaman etc are good but they never had that special aura. To be aquiring it at such a young age is almost unique. If he Hart can keep his confidence, even if he makes the odd mistake, that aura will grow & Given can't compete with that.

 

[bluenova]

Is there anyone out there who isn't Irish who'd like to come and tell us that Shay should be in the team ahead of Hart? That might help the discussion move away from nationality.

We're regularly guilty of bigging up home grown players over bought players, and I think most England/Ireland/Argentinian city fans like seeing players in the national sides....but I don't think this has anything to do with nationality at all.

Right now, Hart is in exceptional form, and there aren't many keepers in the world who could compete with him. I think the decision to bring him back, and then make him number one, has the potential to eclipse any of the other signings we've made this summer.

 

[IrishMacca]

Is there anyone out there who isn't Irish who'd like to come and tell us that Shay should be in the team ahead of Hart? That might help the discussion move away from nationality.

We're regularly guilty of bigging up home grown players over bought players, and I think most England/Ireland/Argentinian city fans like seeing players in the national sides....but I don't think this has anything to do with nationality at all.

Right now, Hart is in exceptional form, and there aren't many keepers in the world who could compete with him. I think the decision to bring him back, and then make him number one, has the potential to eclipse any of the other signings we've made this summer.

What, anyone out there who thinks he shouldn't be on the team, you mean who are English. Because the majority are and while ye call us biased, ye are just as bad.

And ye do exagerate things, like his form, I mean he's played one decent match, he's had very little to do in the other 3 or 4 and all ready he's fuckin better than Buffon and has some special air about him. For the love of God like. It's like listening to the RAGS with Foster all over again, or any other English player ye have come across with potential. It's like listening to United fans rave about the likes of Macheda because of one moment of brilliance. I mean give him 5 minutes and lets see. But typical English fans, overhype a player to a ridiculous level and then crush him, sooner or later, when he crashes and burns, because of one mistake and an allmighty amount of pressure.

Hart is good, yes, but he's not the worlds greatest like some would suggest on here. He's done nothing to suggest that. Not yet.

Hart should have had to fight for the jersey off Given who did nothing wrong to be dropped, not have it handed to him the minute he came back so he wouldn't throw a strop and storm off, as he suggested he would, many times.

 

[ifiwasarichfan]

Absolutely brilliant OP and debate. We could all though say the same if Friedal or Jaskeleinnan or Scwartzer had been English and City players. I think Joe would have had to move on. Given's only crime is an injured shoulder. We have two absolutely outstanding keepers.