IF Shay Given was English would Hart be Englands Number 1?

[pee dubya]

Oh you're so witty.

From Mancini's own mouth when talking about the Liverpool game..

"I'm happy with all the players. Tonight there were six English players, which is important. We need an English mentality."
He also said when he signer Milner that he was happy because he was English and how very important that is.

But sure..why would that matter. It's just me being paranoid. FFS like.

To be fair your right Mancini has quoted that a number of times about how important it is to have English players. I honestly feel the club dont want to be classed in the Arsenal bracket were the team is made up of non English players. I think it is a way of not having as much media hound them down over the transfer dealings.

I find that slightly strange given the lack of Italians in his Inter side. I'm guessing that prioritizing English player to some degree is part of his brief, rather than a personal preference.

 

[Matty]

I can fully understand Given wanting to play, and wanting to leave if that doesn't happen. He's 34/35 and has a limited number of years left, plus he's more than good enough to start for most Premiership sides. However I can also understand Mancini's predicament, he's got two top class keepers and wants to keep both (he doesn't want the Fulop situation to happen again), the problem with goalkeeper though is it's not always benefitial to your "number one" to rest him for a number of games, goalkeepers tend to fair better when they get into a rhythmn and play regularly. Mancini has made the only sensible decision, ultimately he's highly likely to lose the keeper he doesn't make his number one, and only a fool would lose the current and future England number one when he's 12 years younger than his competition.

You're right when you say that Given hasn't done anything to deserve being dropped (ok, maybe not anything, he certainly dropped off in terms of form last season after a stellar start) but, at the end of the day, so what? There isn't a place for sentimentality in Premiership football, certainly not at the top end of the table, Mancini had a hard decision to make, whoever missed out was going to feel hard done by and wouldn't deserve it.

As for Given's nationality, it won't have mattered one iota to Mancini, the only person it seems to matter to is Irishmacca, but then historically he seems to demonstrate such a huge chip on his shoulder over his nationality that it's no surprise there was a shortage of potatoes in Ireland for a while.

Oh you're so witty.

From Mancini's own mouth when talking about the Liverpool game..

"I'm happy with all the players. Tonight there were six English players, which is important. We need an English mentality."
He also said when he signer Milner that he was happy because he was English and how very important that is.

But sure..why would that matter. It's just me being paranoid. FFS like.

I think you'll find Mancini, despite using the word "English", was probably meaning "British". Now, yes, I'm aware the Republic of Ireland isn't actually Britain, but the mentality of the players from there, and the experience they have is identical to British players. Look at Dunne, Ireland, Keane (Robbie and Roy), Given etc etc etc, where did they have the majority of their training? Who was their first major club? An English/British one. The English mentality he's talking about is one developed in England, which is where most Irish players have plied their trade. Your straw clutching is becoming embarrassing now. But, of course, we've gone for Hart over Given because of Hart's "English mentality" something Given couldn't possibly have developed playing at such far flung clubs as Blackburn, Swindon (loan), Sunderland (loan), Newcastle and now Manchester City now could he? Have a word with yourself.

 

[stumpy_mcfc]

I don't know too much about Italian managers, but I'm guessing distribution is a huge deal for them and someone had figures on here last season that Given was and by some margin the worst in the Prem League.

His "poor" distribution has been exagerated by many as a reason why Given shouldn't be started, Hart's isn't exactly any where near first class, and Given's distribution in the Irish game on Fri was excellent.

Speaking of that game, one of which he did really well in (not like anyone saw it) Liam Brady said before hand, while they were discussing the worry of not having our top players start in the Prem, that while Keane's was down to having better players ahead of him, Given's, he felt, had more to do with Hart being English than anything. So, well we're not alone really.

I live in Ireland and watched RTE where Brady was his usual self. With him it is all things Arsenal and Ireland - which is fair for him but does not make to take his opinions seriously.

 

[IrishMacca]

His "poor" distribution has been exagerated by many as a reason why Given shouldn't be started, Hart's isn't exactly any where near first class, and Given's distribution in the Irish game on Fri was excellent.

Speaking of that game, one of which he did really well in (not like anyone saw it) Liam Brady said before hand, while they were discussing the worry of not having our top players start in the Prem, that while Keane's was down to having better players ahead of him, Given's, he felt, had more to do with Hart being English than anything. So, well we're not alone really.

I live in Ireland and watched RTE where Brady was his usual self. With him it is all things Arsenal and Ireland - which is fair for him but does not make to take his opinions seriously.

You apparently watch it and come out with that?

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

yawn, yawn, yawn...if Given was THAT good he'd be in the team, I also remember Ireland only playing Armenia(?) on friday, so hardly credible opposition.

 

[IrishMacca]

yawn, yawn, yawn...if Given was THAT good he'd be in the team, I also remember Ireland only playing Armenia(?) on friday, so hardly credible opposition.

Ya and Bulgaria are world beaters. Yet I distinctly remember the numerous topics being created praising Hart for a save or two he made in the game.
Given had a lot more to do than Hart, and his distribution was excellent, as was his control of the box. Oh wait no, that can't be right, he's shite at those aspects of the game if you believed some of the Given bashers.

 

[lee-mcfc]

Hart > Given

my opinion

 

[SWP's back]

I can fully understand Given wanting to play, and wanting to leave if that doesn't happen. He's 34/35 and has a limited number of years left, plus he's more than good enough to start for most Premiership sides. However I can also understand Mancini's predicament, he's got two top class keepers and wants to keep both (he doesn't want the Fulop situation to happen again), the problem with goalkeeper though is it's not always benefitial to your "number one" to rest him for a number of games, goalkeepers tend to fair better when they get into a rhythmn and play regularly. Mancini has made the only sensible decision, ultimately he's highly likely to lose the keeper he doesn't make his number one, and only a fool would lose the current and future England number one when he's 12 years younger than his competition.

You're right when you say that Given hasn't done anything to deserve being dropped (ok, maybe not anything, he certainly dropped off in terms of form last season after a stellar start) but, at the end of the day, so what? There isn't a place for sentimentality in Premiership football, certainly not at the top end of the table, Mancini had a hard decision to make, whoever missed out was going to feel hard done by and wouldn't deserve it.

As for Given's nationality, it won't have mattered one iota to Mancini, the only person it seems to matter to is Irishmacca, but then historically he seems to demonstrate such a huge chip on his shoulder over his nationality that it's no surprise there was a shortage of potatoes in Ireland for a while.

Oh you're so witty.

From Mancini's own mouth when talking about the Liverpool game..

"I'm happy with all the players. Tonight there were six English players, which is important. We need an English mentality."
He also said when he signed Milner that he was happy because he was English and how very important that is.

But sure..why would that matter. It's just me being paranoid. FFS like.

What is your obsession with nationality and proving your not "paranoid". You may not have notice but this forum is based in England, for an English club, in an English league. It is not bad thing have an English mentality therefore is it? Why does it shock you. Can you not go on an Shamrock Rovers's forum if you want to so myopic.

You have failed (as I said you would) to answer how we all want Boateng & Kolarov rather than Richards and Bridge if we put nationality ahead of talent.

You are so one dimentional as to be boring.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

yawn, yawn, yawn...if Given was THAT good he'd be in the team, I also remember Ireland only playing Armenia(?) on friday, so hardly credible opposition.

Ya and Bulgaria are world beaters. Yet I distinctly remember the numerous topics being created praising Hart for a save or two he made in the game.
Given had a lot more to do than Hart, and his distribution was excellent, as was his control of the box. Oh wait no, that can't be right, he's shite at those aspects of the game if you believed some of the Given bashers.

who got to the world cup? just saying, France were shite throughout the whole qualifying and tournament so don't go moaning about that handball, if your players(inc. Given) were as good as you'd like to make out, you'd have qualified and Given would be City number 1(and oh btw, don't go on about England being shit at the WC, cos I don't care, just making the point about your players and team seeing as you rate them so highly).

Also funny how Given's distribution can be so great for Ireland yet utterly shite for City, and Hart is number 1 and hasn't made a mistake yet, just deal with it.

 

[blue_paul]

I'm Irish and I'm a huge Shay Given fan, I was delighted to be in Croke Park the night he won his 100th cap, he got a wonderful reception.
When joe was picked as the City number one, I was a bit surprised and suspected there may have been a political edge to the decision.
However, his performances since have convinced me otherwise. He is bang in form at the moment, playing just as well as he did on loan last season, and i'm delighted he's our number one at the moment and deservedly so. I do hope Shay gets games, perhaps in cup competitions but the jersey is Joe's and I can't see that changing uless there is a monumental loss of form.
As for Irish fans having a bias towards Irish players, I don't really see this. I wanted shot of Ireland and whilst I have great repsect for Richard Dunne and thought the way he was treated by that fucking dickhead Garry Cook was deplorable, I too thought a move was best for him and for City after nine years great service (mostly!).