IF Shay Given was English would Hart be Englands Number 1?

[Shadz69]

I am Irish and a big Given fan and have already stated on another thread Hart should be No1,while i admire the Irish guys sticking up for our lad I think they are wrong in so far as Joe got in and deserves to hold onto his spot.I also agree with Mancini giving Joe as much game time as possible.I hope Given stays but at his age I expect him to move sooner rather than later.

 

[Matty]

I don't think Hart would be England number one currently if Given was English, simply because, as English number one, Given wouldn't have spent a decade at Newcastle. Arsenal, or United, would have signed him up as England number one. It's a strange thing to say, as clearly simply being English doesn't make him any better, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't true. Given would have been a long established number one for England so Hart, as a 23 year old, wouldn't have been given a chance by Capello to replace him. Lets face it, Capello didn't try him at the World Cup despite him clearly being superior to Green, and that was solely down to his age/experience, so he'd NEVER drop Given for him.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I know but the thing that Joe has yet to do that Given has done for the best part of 10-12 years is play consistantly well during those seasons. I think its a risk for Mancini to drop Shay the way he has when you take into account he did fuck all wrong to loose his place in the first team in the first place. If it doesnt work out he has himself to blame. So far Hart hasnt put a foot wrong while he has been in but I would have faith in Given to have started off the season the same way as Hart has. As I said Mancini has said both will play but he has had chances to play Given but has yet to do so. In a ideal world you would sell Given if you dont want him and not have this problem anymore. You cant have 2 number 1s in one squad it causes to much troble.

I don't agree that Given does nothing wrong. I think he's very very weak on crosses & it made us very vulnerable to goals from them & also set pieces. Our defenders had no margin for error, they have to win every single header. I recon Mancini saw the problem in defence, asked Given to come for more crosses & he did, & dropped them. He can't do it. Hart may cost us one or two goals over the season by coming for stuff & getting it wrong but he'll also comfortably catch stuff that Given would be leaving for our defenders & sometimes picking out of the net.

The fact that Hart is already so much bigger, better & more imposing at that aspect of the game means that barring injury or drastic loss of form, Given will never again be City's No1. It's tough on him as he's a top keeper & will probably lead to him going, but it's absolutely the right decision. Everyone in the world of football knows it apart from one or two particular fans of Given.

 

[Matty]

I'm English but I think I speak for most english City fans when I say that I don't give a flying toss what nationality Hart is with regards to City, I want the best. He looks better than Given. If he was Irish & Given was English I'd still want Hart; bigger, sharper & more confident. If that changes I'll want Given back in, end of story.

I get sick of people forcing players on us because their nationality or their mates know them etc etc. It's about City, nowt else.

Ya..right. Not the sense that is coming across here at all.

Anyone who even has a passing knowledge of your posting history is well aware that you mainly surface and post when Irish related matters are being discussed. Whether or not Given is better than Hart (personally I believe the difference isn't great but, as Hart is a decade younger and, in my opinion, slightly better, I'd go for him as the number one) isn't really the point when it comes to your posts, his nationality is blinding your view, as it does for all Irish City players. If memory serves Stephen Ireland was fairly close to being the devil simply because he chose not to play for his country in your opinion.

 

[leighton]

It has nothing to do with Given being Irish. I honestly think we have a great young keeper on our hands here in Hart no doubt about it he will take over and will be a big time player. The way Mancini has got Given to stay at the club is a feather in Mancinis cap he said he needs 2 keepers and said that both will play. I hope he is true to his word. Shay should of played in the Europa League in 1 of the games to give him hope that there will be games for him at the club but nothing. I honestly cant see Shay ever playing for the club again in back to back games and for a player who didnt do much wrong it is harsh on Given. He might get a Carling cup game at West Brom after that game depending on if we get into the next round he might not play again until we have scored enough points in the Europa League to get us into the next round.
I honestly think IF Shay hasnt played in 10 games before the January window he may walk away and go up to Celtic for the remainer of the season or sell him on to another club. No matter what players missed out they would of had a case of being highly unlucky but if neither is given a chance to win back the jersey they would want out and to play thats the main reason why it wont work out with both players at the club as both class themselfs as first team players. IF I was Mancini I would of cashed in on Shay sell him on. If you are going to back Joe get behind him 110% and sell off his rival simple and give him all the game time he needs.

 

[Matty]

It has nothing to do with Given being Irish. I honestly think we have a great young keeper on our hands here in Hart no doubt about it he will take over and will be a big time player. The way Mancini has got Given to stay at the club is a feather in Mancinis cap he said he needs 2 keepers and said that both will play. I hope he is true to his word. Shay should of played in the Europa League in 1 of the games to give him hope that there will be games for him at the club but nothing. I honestly cant see Shay ever playing for the club again in back to back games and for a player who didnt do much wrong it is harsh on Given. He might get a Carling cup game at West Brom after that game depending on if we get into the next round he might not play again until we have scored enough points in the Europa League to get us into the next round.
I honestly think IF Shay hasnt played in 10 games before the January window he may walk away and go up to Celtic for the remainer of the season or sell him on to another club. No matter what players missed out they would of had a case of being highly unlucky but if neither is given a chance to win back the jersey they would want out and to play thats the main reason why it wont work out with both players at the club as both class themselfs as first team players. IF I was Mancini I would of cashed in on Shay sell him on. If you are going to back Joe get behind him 110% and sell off his rival simple and give him all the game time he needs.

I can fully understand Given wanting to play, and wanting to leave if that doesn't happen. He's 34/35 and has a limited number of years left, plus he's more than good enough to start for most Premiership sides. However I can also understand Mancini's predicament, he's got two top class keepers and wants to keep both (he doesn't want the Fulop situation to happen again), the problem with goalkeeper though is it's not always benefitial to your "number one" to rest him for a number of games, goalkeepers tend to fair better when they get into a rhythmn and play regularly. Mancini has made the only sensible decision, ultimately he's highly likely to lose the keeper he doesn't make his number one, and only a fool would lose the current and future England number one when he's 12 years younger than his competition.

You're right when you say that Given hasn't done anything to deserve being dropped (ok, maybe not anything, he certainly dropped off in terms of form last season after a stellar start) but, at the end of the day, so what? There isn't a place for sentimentality in Premiership football, certainly not at the top end of the table, Mancini had a hard decision to make, whoever missed out was going to feel hard done by and wouldn't deserve it.

As for Given's nationality, it won't have mattered one iota to Mancini, the only person it seems to matter to is Irishmacca, but then historically he seems to demonstrate such a huge chip on his shoulder over his nationality that it's no surprise there was a shortage of potatoes in Ireland for a while.

 

[IrishMacca]

It has nothing to do with Given being Irish. I honestly think we have a great young keeper on our hands here in Hart no doubt about it he will take over and will be a big time player. The way Mancini has got Given to stay at the club is a feather in Mancinis cap he said he needs 2 keepers and said that both will play. I hope he is true to his word. Shay should of played in the Europa League in 1 of the games to give him hope that there will be games for him at the club but nothing. I honestly cant see Shay ever playing for the club again in back to back games and for a player who didnt do much wrong it is harsh on Given. He might get a Carling cup game at West Brom after that game depending on if we get into the next round he might not play again until we have scored enough points in the Europa League to get us into the next round.
I honestly think IF Shay hasnt played in 10 games before the January window he may walk away and go up to Celtic for the remainer of the season or sell him on to another club. No matter what players missed out they would of had a case of being highly unlucky but if neither is given a chance to win back the jersey they would want out and to play thats the main reason why it wont work out with both players at the club as both class themselfs as first team players. IF I was Mancini I would of cashed in on Shay sell him on. If you are going to back Joe get behind him 110% and sell off his rival simple and give him all the game time he needs.

I can fully understand Given wanting to play, and wanting to leave if that doesn't happen. He's 34/35 and has a limited number of years left, plus he's more than good enough to start for most Premiership sides. However I can also understand Mancini's predicament, he's got two top class keepers and wants to keep both (he doesn't want the Fulop situation to happen again), the problem with goalkeeper though is it's not always benefitial to your "number one" to rest him for a number of games, goalkeepers tend to fair better when they get into a rhythmn and play regularly. Mancini has made the only sensible decision, ultimately he's highly likely to lose the keeper he doesn't make his number one, and only a fool would lose the current and future England number one when he's 12 years younger than his competition.

You're right when you say that Given hasn't done anything to deserve being dropped (ok, maybe not anything, he certainly dropped off in terms of form last season after a stellar start) but, at the end of the day, so what? There isn't a place for sentimentality in Premiership football, certainly not at the top end of the table, Mancini had a hard decision to make, whoever missed out was going to feel hard done by and wouldn't deserve it.

As for Given's nationality, it won't have mattered one iota to Mancini, the only person it seems to matter to is Irishmacca, but then historically he seems to demonstrate such a huge chip on his shoulder over his nationality that it's no surprise there was a shortage of potatoes in Ireland for a while.

Oh you're so witty.

From Mancini's own mouth when talking about the Liverpool game..

"I'm happy with all the players. Tonight there were six English players, which is important. We need an English mentality."
He also said when he signed Milner that he was happy because he was English and how very important that is.

But sure..why would that matter. It's just me being paranoid. FFS like.

 

[DontLookBackInAnger]

I can fully understand Given wanting to play, and wanting to leave if that doesn't happen. He's 34/35 and has a limited number of years left, plus he's more than good enough to start for most Premiership sides. However I can also understand Mancini's predicament, he's got two top class keepers and wants to keep both (he doesn't want the Fulop situation to happen again), the problem with goalkeeper though is it's not always benefitial to your "number one" to rest him for a number of games, goalkeepers tend to fair better when they get into a rhythmn and play regularly. Mancini has made the only sensible decision, ultimately he's highly likely to lose the keeper he doesn't make his number one, and only a fool would lose the current and future England number one when he's 12 years younger than his competition.

You're right when you say that Given hasn't done anything to deserve being dropped (ok, maybe not anything, he certainly dropped off in terms of form last season after a stellar start) but, at the end of the day, so what? There isn't a place for sentimentality in Premiership football, certainly not at the top end of the table, Mancini had a hard decision to make, whoever missed out was going to feel hard done by and wouldn't deserve it.

As for Given's nationality, it won't have mattered one iota to Mancini, the only person it seems to matter to is Irishmacca, but then historically he seems to demonstrate such a huge chip on his shoulder over his nationality that it's no surprise there was a shortage of potatoes in Ireland for a while.

Oh you're so witty.

From Mancini's own mouth when talking about the Liverpool game..

"I'm happy with all the players. Tonight there were six English players, which is important. We need an English mentality."
He also said when he signer Milner that he was happy because he was English and how very important that is.

But sure..why would that matter. It's just me being paranoid. FFS like.

Mancini did a interview after I think it was the Portland game talking about Ireland and Cunningham and used the same kind of words. As much as you might not like to hear this people outside Ireland(and perhaps the UK)see all non-English players that play their careers in England as being "English"

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Oh you're so witty.

From Mancini's own mouth when talking about the Liverpool game..

"I'm happy with all the players. Tonight there were six English players, which is important. We need an English mentality."
He also said when he signer Milner that he was happy because he was English and how very important that is.

But sure..why would that matter. It's just me being paranoid. FFS like.

Mancini did a interview after I think it was the Portland game talking about Ireland and Cunningham and used the same kind of words. As much as you might not like to hear this people outside Ireland(and perhaps the UK)see all non-English players that play their careers in England as being "English"

so we get ridiculed for buying players, then supposedly we're ruining english football and now we're playing english players we're now ruining football cos we're not playing Irish ones, ffs.

 

[leighton]

I can fully understand Given wanting to play, and wanting to leave if that doesn't happen. He's 34/35 and has a limited number of years left, plus he's more than good enough to start for most Premiership sides. However I can also understand Mancini's predicament, he's got two top class keepers and wants to keep both (he doesn't want the Fulop situation to happen again), the problem with goalkeeper though is it's not always benefitial to your "number one" to rest him for a number of games, goalkeepers tend to fair better when they get into a rhythmn and play regularly. Mancini has made the only sensible decision, ultimately he's highly likely to lose the keeper he doesn't make his number one, and only a fool would lose the current and future England number one when he's 12 years younger than his competition.

You're right when you say that Given hasn't done anything to deserve being dropped (ok, maybe not anything, he certainly dropped off in terms of form last season after a stellar start) but, at the end of the day, so what? There isn't a place for sentimentality in Premiership football, certainly not at the top end of the table, Mancini had a hard decision to make, whoever missed out was going to feel hard done by and wouldn't deserve it.

As for Given's nationality, it won't have mattered one iota to Mancini, the only person it seems to matter to is Irishmacca, but then historically he seems to demonstrate such a huge chip on his shoulder over his nationality that it's no surprise there was a shortage of potatoes in Ireland for a while.

Oh you're so witty.

From Mancini's own mouth when talking about the Liverpool game..

"I'm happy with all the players. Tonight there were six English players, which is important. We need an English mentality."
He also said when he signer Milner that he was happy because he was English and how very important that is.

But sure..why would that matter. It's just me being paranoid. FFS like.

To be fair your right Mancini has quoted that a number of times about how important it is to have English players. I honestly feel the club dont want to be classed in the Arsenal bracket were the team is made up of non English players. I think it is a way of not having as much media hound them down over the transfer dealings.