IF Shay Given was English would Hart be Englands Number 1?

[SWP's back]

Oh you're so witty.

From Mancini's own mouth when talking about the Liverpool game..

"I'm happy with all the players. Tonight there were six English players, which is important. We need an English mentality."
He also said when he signer Milner that he was happy because he was English and how very important that is.

But sure..why would that matter. It's just me being paranoid. FFS like.

To be fair your right Mancini has quoted that a number of times about how important it is to have English players. I honestly feel the club dont want to be classed in the Arsenal bracket were the team is made up of non English players. I think it is a way of not having as much media hound them down over the transfer dealings.

No - it has nothing to do with that, It is because:

Milner is better than Ireland
Hart is better than Given
Johnson is better than SWP (another English if you look)
Barry is better than Gelson
Bridge was better than Garrido

We only replaced players with English ones when they were better than who we had in place.

And as I said above, there is nothing wrong with having an English backbone (so long as they are good enough), at an English club in the EPL is there.

 

[IrishMacca]

Ya and Bulgaria are world beaters. Yet I distinctly remember the numerous topics being created praising Hart for a save or two he made in the game.
Given had a lot more to do than Hart, and his distribution was excellent, as was his control of the box. Oh wait no, that can't be right, he's shite at those aspects of the game if you believed some of the Given bashers.

who got to the world cup? just saying, France were shite throughout the whole qualifying and tournament so don't go moaning about that handball, if your players(inc. Given) were as good as you'd like to make out, you'd have qualified and Given would be City number 1(and oh btw, don't go on about England being shit at the WC, cos I don't care, just making the point about your players and team seeing as you rate them so highly).

Also funny how Given's distribution can be so great for Ireland yet utterly shite for City, and Hart is number 1 and hasn't made a mistake yet, just deal with it.

We have no dellusions, ye think ye'll win it each and every time and never learn from it. I never said we were world beaters, unlike England and English fans.
Funny that, it's up to the players to win the ball, all I'm saying is that the distribution the other night was spot on.

And Given didn't deserve to loose it either. But we don't always get what we deserve. Politics and all.

 

[SWP's back]

yawn, yawn, yawn...if Given was THAT good he'd be in the team, I also remember Ireland only playing Armenia(?) on friday, so hardly credible opposition.

Ya and Bulgaria are world beaters. Yet I distinctly remember the numerous topics being created praising Hart for a save or two he made in the game.
Given had a lot more to do than Hart, and his distribution was excellent, as was his control of the box. Oh wait no, that can't be right, he's shite at those aspects of the game if you believed some of the Given bashers.

You're kidding. Praise for OUR keeper on OUR own forum? You are usually fairly see through in your hatred of anything non-Irish at City but today you are more see through than a window. I am just pleased it is there for all to see.

Funnily enough on Talksport in my car just now there was a Spurs fan talking about Hart saying he was the form keeper in Europe right now and could no doubt stand on the corner flag and still keep a clean sheet. A spurs fan! Wow - so pleased nationalism is alive and well down south for him to make that lie up.<br /><br />-- Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:32 pm --<br /><br />

who got to the world cup? just saying, France were shite throughout the whole qualifying and tournament so don't go moaning about that handball, if your players(inc. Given) were as good as you'd like to make out, you'd have qualified and Given would be City number 1(and oh btw, don't go on about England being shit at the WC, cos I don't care, just making the point about your players and team seeing as you rate them so highly).

Also funny how Given's distribution can be so great for Ireland yet utterly shite for City, and Hart is number 1 and hasn't made a mistake yet, just deal with it.

We have no dellusions, ye think ye'll win it each and every time and never learn from it. I never said we were world beaters, unlike England and English fans.
Funny that, it's up to the players to win the ball, all I'm saying is that the distribution the other night was spot on.

And Given didn't deserve to loose it either. But we don't always get what we deserve. Politics and all.

One question before that chip breaks your shoulder.

Who was better last season? Hart or Given?

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

who got to the world cup? just saying, France were shite throughout the whole qualifying and tournament so don't go moaning about that handball, if your players(inc. Given) were as good as you'd like to make out, you'd have qualified and Given would be City number 1(and oh btw, don't go on about England being shit at the WC, cos I don't care, just making the point about your players and team seeing as you rate them so highly).

Also funny how Given's distribution can be so great for Ireland yet utterly shite for City, and Hart is number 1 and hasn't made a mistake yet, just deal with it.

We have no dellusions, ye think ye'll win it each and every time and never learn from it. I never said we were world beaters, unlike England and English fans.
Funny that, it's up to the players to win the ball, all I'm saying is that the distribution the other night was spot on.

And Given didn't deserve to loose it either. But we don't always get what we deserve. Politics and all.

A few things:

a) your generalisations of England and English fans because of papers and a few tv channels ramping up expectations to get revenue when many, many, many football fans don't believe the hype is delusional and hypocritical, considering the fact you're so keen to believe irish pundits with an agenda who say Given isn't in the team because he's Irish and Joe is English!

b) The players can't win the ball if it's kicked to somewhere that's nowhere near them, many an occassion the touchline.

c) Given lost his place to Fulop when he was injured. He was not number 1 when Hart came back because he wasn't playing, Fulop was. Also Hart must have impressed Mancini more in training to make himself number 1, so really you have to question why EITHER(if you're to be believed) Given can only be arsed to put in sterling world class performances for his country or why Irish people are so against english players being better than Irish players, hmmm...

 

[Ray78]

We have no dellusions, ye think ye'll win it each and every time and never learn from it. I never said we were world beaters, unlike England and English fans.
Funny that, it's up to the players to win the ball, all I'm saying is that the distribution the other night was spot on.

And Given didn't deserve to loose it either. But we don't always get what we deserve. Politics and all.

A few things:

a) your generalisations of England and English fans because of papers and a few tv channels ramping up expectations to get revenue when many, many, many football fans don't believe the hype is delusional and hypocritical, considering the fact you're so keen to believe irish pundits with an agenda who say Given isn't in the team because he's Irish and Joe is English!

b) The players can't win the ball if it's kicked to somewhere that's nowhere near them, many an occassion the touchline.

c) Given lost his place to Fulop when he was injured. He was not number 1 when Hart came back because he wasn't playing, Fulop was. Also Hart must have impressed Mancini more in training to make himself number 1, so really you have to question why EITHER(if you're to be believed) Given can only be arsed to put in sterling world class performances for his country or why Irish people are so against english players being better than Irish players, hmmm...

I am English but that statement is a little bit out. There are doubts on whether Shay's shoulder can stand another season of punishment not because of Given's ability. Fulop was brought in because of lack of experience in the goalkeepers at City during Shay's injury (Hart was still at Birmingham at the time).

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

A few things:

a) your generalisations of England and English fans because of papers and a few tv channels ramping up expectations to get revenue when many, many, many football fans don't believe the hype is delusional and hypocritical, considering the fact you're so keen to believe irish pundits with an agenda who say Given isn't in the team because he's Irish and Joe is English!

b) The players can't win the ball if it's kicked to somewhere that's nowhere near them, many an occassion the touchline.

c) Given lost his place to Fulop when he was injured. He was not number 1 when Hart came back because he wasn't playing, Fulop was. Also Hart must have impressed Mancini more in training to make himself number 1, so really you have to question why EITHER(if you're to be believed) Given can only be arsed to put in sterling world class performances for his country or why Irish people are so against english players being better than Irish players, hmmm...

I am English but that statement is a little bit out. There are doubts on whether Shay's shoulder can stand another season of punishment not because of Given's ability. Fulop was brought in because of lack of experience in the goalkeepers at City during Shay's injury (Hart was still at Birmingham at the time).

Was Given number 1 at the end of last season? no, because he wasn't playing, Fulop was the number 1 active keeper. So Hart hasn't been given preferential treatment or been given Shay's place, Shay gave it up when he got injured, he doesn't have a divine right to it, he has to earn it as much as the next guy, and Hart has obviously done more to earn it.

 

[I remember the kippax]

to get back on topic - and in answer to the original question -

If Shay Given was English would Hart be England's Number 1 - the answer in my opinion is........

probably, although Given would undoubtedly have been the English number 1 since Seaman retired in 2002...

principally because of what has happened to both keepers in the last 6 months - so

Given injures shoulder - thereby ruling him out of the South Africa world cup

Capello picks Green, Hart & James (to add experience)

history unfolds

friendly in August - Given is not yet back to full fitness and to keep the press happy picks Hart

Hart starts as Man City number 1

Given is on the bench

Hart plays blinder vs Spurs

Capello picks Hart, Given & Foster for the Euro 2012 qualifiers for the England Squad

Capello decides to go with Hart - the form man against Bulgaria

Hart keeps a clean sheet, and can't really be dropped for Switzerland

Hart remains City's number 1 and England's number 1

 

[Ray78]

I am English but that statement is a little bit out. There are doubts on whether Shay's shoulder can stand another season of punishment not because of Given's ability. Fulop was brought in because of lack of experience in the goalkeepers at City during Shay's injury (Hart was still at Birmingham at the time).

Was Given number 1 at the end of last season? no, because he wasn't playing, Fulop was the number 1 active keeper. So Hart hasn't been given preferential treatment or been given Shay's place, Shay gave it up when he got injured, he doesn't have a divine right to it, he has to earn it as much as the next guy, and Hart has obviously done more to earn it.

No it wasn't Given's fault that he was injured. If Joe wasn't loaned out for a season he would of got the chance to help us with our push for fourth. My opinion is that it is down to Shay's miraculous recovery during preseason.

 

[Anonymous]

Hart is the future.For England and City.
That season on loan at Birmingham has done wonders for his confidence.He looks a different player-he's gone from being a raw kid with talent to being one of the best,if not the best-keeper in the PL.
He has an "aura" about him that all the top players have.I don't know what I mean by that but I'm sure it makes sense...(!)

Shay is a quality keeper but Hart has come so far in the last 18 months that he's overtaken him now.
I would also have to say that Shay isn't getting any younger,and that shoulder injury is always going to be at the back of his mind.
If it was any other keeper than Joe,I would be gutted for Shay.
But this is one of those situations where the head has to overule the heart.

Hart no.1-For England and City.
If that means Shay leaving,then so be it.
He deserves to be NO.1 elsewhere,but he's up against who I believe will prove to be the best City keeper since Corrigan.

 

[DontLookBackInAnger]

yawn, yawn, yawn...if Given was THAT good he'd be in the team, I also remember Ireland only playing Armenia(?) on friday, so hardly credible opposition.

Ya and Bulgaria are world beaters. Yet I distinctly remember the numerous topics being created praising Hart for a save or two he made in the game.
Given had a lot more to do than Hart, and his distribution was excellent, as was his control of the box. Oh wait no, that can't be right, he's shite at those aspects of the game if you believed some of the Given bashers.

But interestingly while ranked just below Ireland right now are placed higher all time, so I guess they would find an Irishman dismissing them as a footballing nation pretty funny.