Would prefer to see a slow, sad decline, parhaps a relegation or two... destitution, paupery... crowds of 20,000 because all the foreigners have stopped bothering to attend. As for local darbys? That will be Liverpool won't it? Surely a 'more important' match...?
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If you had your choice of united going bust or not would you
- Thread starter mcfc_die_hard
- Start date
bluestonecowboy
Member
My initial response all KK: Going Bust? Love it, I'd really love it. But a slow, lingering death does have its attractions.....
Kinkysboots
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 11 Aug 2009
- Messages
- 153
Go bust and rot in football hell for eternity!!!
Kinkysboots
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 11 Aug 2009
- Messages
- 153
Go bust and rot in football hell for eternity!!!
Rammyblues
Well-Known Member
Would prefer to see a slow, sad decline, parhaps a relegation or two... destitution, paupery... crowds of 20,000 because all the foreigners have stopped bothering to attend. As for local darbys? That will be Liverpool won't it? Surely a 'more important' match...?
Agreed a long painful decline with ever growing debts rising prices for their plastics, not having to see a rag top in any town in the UK. To be honest they will never go bust not with a turnover of a quater of a billion a year.
Kinky by name
Well-Known Member
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jan/13/manchester-united-debt-refinancing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010 ... efinancing</a>
Manchester United bond issue faces stiff competition for investor cash
• Glut of similar high-yield offerings on market
• MU Finance roadshow to refinance £500m debt arrives in UK
Attempts by Manchester United's owners to refinance the club's £500m debt could be hampered by a glut of similar high-yield bond offerings, City bond traders said yesterday as the club's banks and executives started the European leg of a series of roadshows designed to spark interest.
At a meeting in Edinburgh's Balmoral Hotel, representatives of the consortium of banks managing the deal – JP Morgan, Bank of America Merrill Lynch, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs and Royal Bank of Scotland – and United executives presented the detail of the bond offer.
This week is one of the busiest launch periods for new bonds in two years, as a series of indebted companies rush to refinance bank debt with investors who have a renewed appetite for risk in the wake of the market meltdown in 2008.
City sources said the fear that interest rates, currently at a historic low, would begin to rise, plus the fact that fund managers had money to invest and were looking to add riskier bets to their portfolio, had combined to create a glut of new issues. But the busy period also means there are plenty of other options for potential investors at a similar price. "One of the things they will be up against is the fact there is a massive amount of supply at the moment, particularly in high-yield bonds. I've counted five other deals pricing today alone," said Euan McNeil, fixed income manager at Aegon Asset Management.
"There is quite a lot of paper to come on to the market. Aside from judging the merits of the Manchester United deal on its own, there is also the relative consideration one has to make on how much money there is to go into the asset class."
Virgin Media, UPC and Ardagh Glass are among six or seven companies to turn to the bond market to refinance their debt this week. The MU Finance roadshow that started in Hong Kong on Monday reached the UK today and will continue in London tomorrow. It then moves to continental Europe and, next week, to the United States.
Through the plan, the Glazer family, who bought United in a controversial leveraged buyout in 2005, hope to refinance the £509.5m in debt currently secured on the club through a series of four loans. The seven-year bond is expected to be priced at between 9% and 9.5%.
That will increase the amount of interest that the club pays on its £500m debt, currently fixed at just over 5%, but will create a mechanism for the Glazers to funnel up to £70m from United's existing cashflow to their holding company to start paying down a £200m hedge fund debt secured on their shareholding. Those so-called Payment in Kind notes are accumulating at a rate of 14.25% a year.The offer document released this week revealed the Glazers had taken £23m out of the club in management fees and loans since 2006 and had made a provision to transfer ownership of the Carrington training ground to their holding company.
While the banks behind the issuance are believed to be confident, the counter view is that the inherent risk in investing in a football club might count against it.
McNeil said: "I think it's fair to say we have not been bowled over by the initial price guidance. It strikes me that at those kind of levels it's quite a good deal for Manchester United but doesn't strike me as a massively attractive deal as an investor. That's not to say we won't get involved but it doesn't strike me as a 'shut your eyes and buy' job."
Manchester United bond issue faces stiff competition for investor cash
• Glut of similar high-yield offerings on market
• MU Finance roadshow to refinance £500m debt arrives in UK
Attempts by Manchester United's owners to refinance the club's £500m debt could be hampered by a glut of similar high-yield bond offerings, City bond traders said yesterday as the club's banks and executives started the European leg of a series of roadshows designed to spark interest.
At a meeting in Edinburgh's Balmoral Hotel, representatives of the consortium of banks managing the deal – JP Morgan, Bank of America Merrill Lynch, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs and Royal Bank of Scotland – and United executives presented the detail of the bond offer.
This week is one of the busiest launch periods for new bonds in two years, as a series of indebted companies rush to refinance bank debt with investors who have a renewed appetite for risk in the wake of the market meltdown in 2008.
City sources said the fear that interest rates, currently at a historic low, would begin to rise, plus the fact that fund managers had money to invest and were looking to add riskier bets to their portfolio, had combined to create a glut of new issues. But the busy period also means there are plenty of other options for potential investors at a similar price. "One of the things they will be up against is the fact there is a massive amount of supply at the moment, particularly in high-yield bonds. I've counted five other deals pricing today alone," said Euan McNeil, fixed income manager at Aegon Asset Management.
"There is quite a lot of paper to come on to the market. Aside from judging the merits of the Manchester United deal on its own, there is also the relative consideration one has to make on how much money there is to go into the asset class."
Virgin Media, UPC and Ardagh Glass are among six or seven companies to turn to the bond market to refinance their debt this week. The MU Finance roadshow that started in Hong Kong on Monday reached the UK today and will continue in London tomorrow. It then moves to continental Europe and, next week, to the United States.
Through the plan, the Glazer family, who bought United in a controversial leveraged buyout in 2005, hope to refinance the £509.5m in debt currently secured on the club through a series of four loans. The seven-year bond is expected to be priced at between 9% and 9.5%.
That will increase the amount of interest that the club pays on its £500m debt, currently fixed at just over 5%, but will create a mechanism for the Glazers to funnel up to £70m from United's existing cashflow to their holding company to start paying down a £200m hedge fund debt secured on their shareholding. Those so-called Payment in Kind notes are accumulating at a rate of 14.25% a year.The offer document released this week revealed the Glazers had taken £23m out of the club in management fees and loans since 2006 and had made a provision to transfer ownership of the Carrington training ground to their holding company.
While the banks behind the issuance are believed to be confident, the counter view is that the inherent risk in investing in a football club might count against it.
McNeil said: "I think it's fair to say we have not been bowled over by the initial price guidance. It strikes me that at those kind of levels it's quite a good deal for Manchester United but doesn't strike me as a massively attractive deal as an investor. That's not to say we won't get involved but it doesn't strike me as a 'shut your eyes and buy' job."
AustinBlue
Well-Known Member
I don't want any team to go bust. I don't want to celebrate our "wealth." I want to beat teams on the pitch. I want to be on the terraces cheering my team and celebrating our victories. I don't need someone else's failure to celebrate.
I can't stand United. But mostly because we've been crap for years, and lived in their shadow, and all their fans I meet have never even been to their stadium. But I don't want them to go bust, nor do I believe that's even a remote possibility. They can't flash the cash on the best players for a while, but they aren't going bust.
I love City, but we've won **ck all for the past 30 odd years and should quit mocking other teams until we've earned it on the pitch.
I can't stand United. But mostly because we've been crap for years, and lived in their shadow, and all their fans I meet have never even been to their stadium. But I don't want them to go bust, nor do I believe that's even a remote possibility. They can't flash the cash on the best players for a while, but they aren't going bust.
I love City, but we've won **ck all for the past 30 odd years and should quit mocking other teams until we've earned it on the pitch.
Bentheblue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2005
- Messages
- 1,790
A slow lingering death gets my vote.
Three releagations on the bounce, crowds dwindling to 5,000, getting battered 5-0 at the Swamp by Stockport and the like and struggling to stay out of the conference.
Then after years of struggling and suffering they can go bust on the the same date as a certain plane crash, which should stop them having any more parties on that date.
And whilst all this is happening we are getting stronger and stonger culminating in us being the first club to win the Champions League 5 times on the bounce at the same time as winning the domestic treble.
Hell those were two cracking bottles of wine!!
Three releagations on the bounce, crowds dwindling to 5,000, getting battered 5-0 at the Swamp by Stockport and the like and struggling to stay out of the conference.
Then after years of struggling and suffering they can go bust on the the same date as a certain plane crash, which should stop them having any more parties on that date.
And whilst all this is happening we are getting stronger and stonger culminating in us being the first club to win the Champions League 5 times on the bounce at the same time as winning the domestic treble.
Hell those were two cracking bottles of wine!!