Ilkay Gundogan - 2016/17 Performances

[Rolee]

I'm inclined to agree with @Dax777 here, I think Gundogan will be our 6 long term.

@Terra Passenger

What do you suppose Pep meant about Gundogan here "He told me that he needs a player like me as a central midfielder"?

 

[Rolee]

bump. Anyone?

All of the above, he played a box to box type role with Dortmund from what I saw, similar in a lot of ways to the role Dinho played at Shaktar, time will tell what role he eventually makes his own in this side.

 

[Terra Passenger]

I'm inclined to agree with @Dax777 here, I think Gundogan will be our 6 long term.

@Terra Passenger

What do you suppose Pep meant about Gundogan here "He told me that he needs a player like me as a central midfielder"?

I believe that Dax and I have agreed to disagree on this topic. So, I'll limit my remarks on this aspect of Gundogan for now. But read my post in the Fernandinho thread for a bit more of my views on the lone 6. As part of a dual pivot, I think that Gundogan would be perfect.

The term "central midfielder" is pretty broad as it encompasses a CAM as well as a box-to-box player. I think Gundo can play the 8 or a dual pivot perfectly. I'm just not sure he has the stamina/pace for the lone pivot.

 

[Rolee]

I believe that Dax and I have agreed to disagree on this topic. So, I'll limit my remarks on this aspect of Gundogan for now. But read my post in the Fernandinho thread for a bit more of my views on the lone 6. As part of a dual pivot, I think that Gundogan would be perfect.

The term "central midfielder" is pretty broad as it encompasses a CAM as well as a box-to-box player. I think Gundo can play the 8 or a dual pivot perfectly. I'm just not sure he has the stamina/pace for the lone pivot.

I know what central midfielder encompasses ( a tad patronising there mate ) what about the "player like me" bit?

 

[Terra Passenger]

I know what central midfielder encompasses ( a tad patronising there mate ) what about the "player like me" bit?

Sorry - I didn't mean to be patronizing - I was merely pointing out that someone saying "you need a player like me as a central midfielder" is ambiguous in that it's not clear if he's talking about a box-to-box role or an attacking role or maybe both. Is there a larger context to this statement that makes the meaning clearer?

 

[shemnel]

All of the above, he played a box to box type role with Dortmund from what I saw, similar in a lot of ways to the role Dinho played at Shaktar, time will tell what role he eventually makes his own in this side.

ta

 

[Rolee]

Sorry - I didn't mean to be patronizing - I was merely pointing out that someone saying "you need a player like me as a central midfielder" is ambiguous in that it's not clear if he's talking about a box-to-box role or an attacking role or maybe both. Is there a larger context to this statement that makes the meaning clearer?

There isn't really a larger context and reading it back you're right, it is ambiguous.

 

[Terra Passenger]

There isn't really a larger context and reading it back you're right, it is ambiguous.

So yeah, then... Gundogan is a bit of a freak - he's great at defense and offense - better than Fernandinho as a lone pivot, hell no - but when fully fit, maybe good enough. As an 8 in Pep's system - he's clearly going to be devastating.

So yes, I could be wrong... maybe Gundo can slot into the lone 6 role - but... it's still clear for me that he'd be devastating as one of our 8's and, having played as part of a dual pivot in the past, he'd be world-class there as well.

Can't wait for Gundo and Sane to be fit enough to start.

And then there's Jesus coming in January.

We're going to absolutely, fucking destroy everyone in the PL this year.

 

[Rolee]

So yeah, then... Gundogan is a bit of a freak - he's great at defense and offense - better than Fernandinho as a lone pivot, hell no - but when fully fit, maybe good enough. As an 8 in Pep's system - he's clearly going to be devastating.

So yes, I could be wrong... maybe Gundo can slot into the lone 6 role - but... it's still clear for me that he'd be devastating as one of our 8's and, having played as part of a dual pivot in the past, he'd be world-class there as well.

Can't wait for Gundo and Sane to be fit enough to start.

And then there's Jesus coming in January.

We're going to absolutely, fucking destroy everyone in the PL this year.

The only aspect I think Gundogan lacks for lone pivot is athleticism, in all other areas I think he outshines Fernandinho. I think Gundogan has better vision, better passing and better reading of the game( although currently Dinho is probably ahead of him in this regard owing to playing in the PL for three years )

This is just theory but I think Gundogan has the ability to dictate the pace from that lone pivot role better than Dinho has.

It's going to be interesting to see how it develops.

 

[Terra Passenger]

The only aspect I think Gundogan lacks for lone pivot is athleticism, in all other areas I think he outshines Fernandinho. I think Gundogan has better vision, better passing and better reading of the game( although currently Dinho is probably ahead of him in this regard owing to playing in the PL for three years )

This is just theory but I think Gundogan has the ability to dictate the pace from that lone pivot role better than Dinho has.

It's going to be interesting to see how it develops.

Gundogan is clearly the better passer for sure. Agree 100% - nonetheless, Fernandinho's passing is already fucking phenomenal.

It's our current lack of pace in our fullbacks that exposes us to the extent that our lone pivot must be extremely fast and excellent at winning the ball back.

Fernandinho seems to be faster than Gundogan by quite a bit; and Fernandinho is probably better at winning the ball back.

Vision - this is a curious thing. I think that from an attacking perspective, Gundogan can spot better passes than Fernandinho.

Vision on defense - where you must anticpate a counter - where you must see where the ball is going to be played next - Fernandinho is absolutely freakishly good at this. I haven't seen enough of Gundogan on defense to compare - but I doubt that he'd match Fernandinho in this department.

Play Gundogan as an 8 - he'll kill it there.

Play Fernandinho/Garcia as our lone pivot. They'll excel there.

And if we go with a dual pivot - slot in Gundogan as one of them for sure.

Gundogan is massively diverse - he's world class at the 8, or as part of a dual pivot, or as some sort of free-wheeling midfielder, expected to contribute on defense as well as offense.

Bottom line is that we need Gundogan in our starting lineup as soon as possible.