Ilkay Gundogan - 2016/17 Performances

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mavsmcfc said:
I do believe that statement - the problem is that the amount of turnovers we're going to cause (in the opponent's half) is less than the amount of times we're going to keep the ball. If anything, having Dinho at the 6 position will give more results in terms of creating turnovers as the philosophy is to take out the passing lanes and the first receiver and not the passer itself. When we had Kev and Silva and Dinho altogether, as soon as we lose the ball Kev and Silva would hound the passer and Dinho is waiting to intercept the pass from the passer. This happened many many times this season as Dinho would be waiting at the center of the pitch to intercept those passes.

If you took my statement as Dinho not being able to play an 8 at all, that wasn't my intention. Dinho can definitely play an 8, but I don't think he will be most effective there. Would you agree that Dinho as 6, with Gundogan/Silva/Kev as the 8s is our best set up?

The problem with Dinho playing the 8 is also the fact that our free-roaming 8s are the playmakers, and Dinho is not a playmaker. We saw against the Spurs that our midfield is dead as soon as Silva is ganged up by Wanyama and Sissoko. If Gundogan/Kev is playing the other 8 spot, they wouldn't be able to gang up on Silva as the other would be open and can do the job just as well.

I know you mentioned Vidal but Vidal is superior to Fernandinho in terms of passing as well as shooting/finishing, which is what's needed as our 8s. Moreover I think our set up and way of playing is different than Bayern, even though we have the same way of playing.
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For some reason Dax777 is beyond the reach of reason, LOL. I've given up on this topic.

Dax insists that playing our best defender in an attacking role and a likely inadequate defender who is nonetheless excellent in attack as our pivot makes great sense.

And let's break this point down while we're at it.

Dax thinks that "our most dangerous football happens when we turn the other team over in their half. And our worst football happens when we cannot keep possession in our half."

Uh, what... we're at our best going forward when the other side is way out of position, attacking us. It's when we win the ball in our half and spring a quick counter (need a great passing 6 for this to happen) that we're at our best.

By design, we win the ball in the opposing half all the time; in that side of the pitch they can't attack and hurt us - but by the same token, they're likely to be in decent defensive position.

As far as "we're at our worst when we cannot keep possession in our half" goes - well, yeah... obviously.

But if we don't have the ball in our half, it likely means that we're under attack - does it make great sense to play our best defender in an 8 role at this dangerous moment.

Dax thinks so.

But whatever.
 
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Pep dropped a bollock yesterday all around not a good week for him. For me he needs to be starting games especially with KDB on the side lines. It may have took him a bit yesterday to adjust to a game played at frantic pace but when he did it showed us why Fernando spends so much time on the bench.
 
Terra Passenger said:
For some reason Dax777 is beyond the reach of reason, LOL. I've given up on this topic.

Dax insists that playing our best defender in an attacking role and a likely inadequate defender who is nonetheless excellent in attack as our pivot makes great sense.

And let's break this point down while we're at it.

Dax thinks that "our most dangerous football happens when we turn the other team over in their half. And our worst football happens when we cannot keep possession in our half."

Uh, what... we're at our best going forward when the other side is way out of position, attacking us. It's when we win the ball in our half and spring a quick counter (need a great passing 6 for this to happen) that we're at our best.

By design, we win the ball in the opposing half all the time; in that side of the pitch they can't attack and hurt us - but by the same token, they're likely to be in decent defensive position.

As far as "we're at our worst when we cannot keep possession in our half" goes - well, yeah... obviously.

But if we don't have the ball in our half, it likely means that we're under attack - does it make great sense to play our best defender in an 8 role at this dangerous moment.

Dax thinks so.

But whatever.
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I am not sure Fernandinho is as lethal at picking a pass as Dax says he is, but he does have a point about turning over the team in their half. Watch the Sevilla away game last year for a great example of that over a full 90 mins. Also the Derby first half this year. On the other hand, Spurs did it to us a number of times yesterday (mostly first half) and it created several chances for them as well as removing any sense of offensive momentum we had.

We are a pretty good counterattacking team, but no better IMO than Arse or the Scousers.
 
I would say he is far from his best, still a little bit rusty. Needs time. New country, new club, recovery after serious injury. I'm sure he will imrpove step by step.
 
Terra Passenger said:
For some reason Dax777 is beyond the reach of reason, LOL. I've given up on this topic.

Dax insists that playing our best defender in an attacking role and a likely inadequate defender who is nonetheless excellent in attack as our pivot makes great sense.

And let's break this point down while we're at it.

Dax thinks that "our most dangerous football happens when we turn the other team over in their half. And our worst football happens when we cannot keep possession in our half."

Uh, what... we're at our best going forward when the other side is way out of position, attacking us. It's when we win the ball in our half and spring a quick counter (need a great passing 6 for this to happen) that we're at our best.

By design, we win the ball in the opposing half all the time; in that side of the pitch they can't attack and hurt us - but by the same token, they're likely to be in decent defensive position.

As far as "we're at our worst when we cannot keep possession in our half" goes - well, yeah... obviously.

But if we don't have the ball in our half, it likely means that we're under attack - does it make great sense to play our best defender in an 8 role at this dangerous moment.

Dax thinks so.

But whatever.
Click to expand...

Why are you obsessed with Dax?
 
Terra Passenger said:
For some reason Dax777 is beyond the reach of reason, LOL. I've given up on this topic.

Dax insists that playing our best defender in an attacking role and a likely inadequate defender who is nonetheless excellent in attack as our pivot makes great sense.

And let's break this point down while we're at it.

Dax thinks that "our most dangerous football happens when we turn the other team over in their half. And our worst football happens when we cannot keep possession in our half."

Uh, what... we're at our best going forward when the other side is way out of position, attacking us. It's when we win the ball in our half and spring a quick counter (need a great passing 6 for this to happen) that we're at our best.

By design, we win the ball in the opposing half all the time; in that side of the pitch they can't attack and hurt us - but by the same token, they're likely to be in decent defensive position.

As far as "we're at our worst when we cannot keep possession in our half" goes - well, yeah... obviously.

But if we don't have the ball in our half, it likely means that we're under attack - does it make great sense to play our best defender in an 8 role at this dangerous moment.

Dax thinks so.

But whatever.
Click to expand...
You win Terra. I'm wrong. Let's let the thread move on to other discussions. :)
 
It's very early to judge and I'm reluctant to due to his injuries and previous achievements but, it doesn't look like he likes it up him!

Maybe he's a bit off the pace, but does look a bit fair weather but as I said, too early to judge
 
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