Ilkay Gundogan - 2016/17 Performances

[Rolee]

Gundogan is clearly the better passer for sure. Agree 100% - nonetheless, Fernandinho's passing is already fucking phenomenal.

It's our current lack of pace in our fullbacks that exposes us to the extent that our lone pivot must be extremely fast and excellent at winning the ball back.

Fernandinho seems to be faster than Gundogan by quite a bit; and Fernandinho is probably better at winning the ball back.

Vision - this is a curious thing. I think that from an attacking perspective, Gundogan can spot better passes than Fernandinho.

Vision on defense - where you must anticpate a counter - where you must see where the ball is going to be played next - Fernandinho is absolutely freakishly good at this. I haven't seen enough of Gundogan on defense to compare - but I doubt that he'd match Fernandinho in this department.

Play Gundogan as an 8 - he'll kill it there.

Play Fernandinho/Garcia as our lone pivot. They'll excel there.

And if we go with a dual pivot - slot in Gundogan as one of them for sure.

Gundogan is massively diverse - he's world class at the 8, or as part of a dual pivot, or as some sort of free-wheeling midfielder, expected to contribute on defense as well as offense.

Bottom line is that we need Gundogan in our starting lineup as soon as possible.

I know this is very simplistic but if you look at Gundogan's interception stats they suggest that he has good vision in defence.

 

[Terra Passenger]

I know this is very simplistic but if you look at Gundogan's interception stats they suggest that he has good vision in defence.

Yeah, I agree mostly - but is it better than Fernandinho's?

Much more important for me given our current squad, is whether or not he has the pace to cover for a far upfield Zabba/Kolarov. I'm much more comfortable with Fernandinho if we're playing a single pivot.

And then there's stamina - Fernandinho is a fucking machine - he's never tired. Can a fully fit Gundogan match that? I'm not sure but I don't think so.

Our fullbacks are either horribly slow (Zabba/Kolarov) or are aging so that their pace is questionable (Clichy/Sanya); so if we play a lone 6, he'd better be fucking fast for the full 90. Fernandinho obviously is - Gundo seems to tire and moreover, doesn't match Fernandinho's pace.

 

[_OVO_]

After the internationals, I'd like to see us go with Dinho-Gundo double pivot with KDB pulling the strings as a sole 10 and not a free 8. Then bring Silva late in the games for impact. And switch between KDB and Dave for cup games etc. to keep them both fresh.

 

[_OVO_]

Yeah, I agree mostly - but is it better than Fernandinho's?

Much more important for me given our current squad, is whether or not he has the pace to cover for a far upfield Zabba/Kolarov. I'm much more comfortable with Fernandinho if we're playing a single pivot.

And then there's stamina - Fernandinho is a fucking machine - he's never tired. Can a fully fit Gundogan match that? I'm not sure but I don't think so.

Our fullbacks are either horribly slow (Zabba/Kolarov) or are aging so that their pace is questionable (Clichy/Sanya); so if we play a lone 6, he'd better be fucking fast for the full 90. Fernandinho obviously is - Gundo seems to tire and moreover, doesn't match Fernandinho's pace.

Chiming in, what do you think about our young Fullbacks? Surely they won't be any worse than Seniors the other day.

 

[Rolee]

Yeah, I agree mostly - but is it better than Fernandinho's?

Much more important for me given our current squad, is whether or not he has the pace to cover for a far upfield Zabba/Kolarov. I'm much more comfortable with Fernandinho if we're playing a single pivot.

And then there's stamina - Fernandinho is a fucking machine - he's never tired. Can a fully fit Gundogan match that? I'm not sure but I don't think so.

Our fullbacks are either horribly slow (Zabba/Kolarov) or are aging so that their pace is questionable (Clichy/Sanya); so if we play a lone 6, he'd better be fucking fast for the full 90. Fernandinho obviously is - Gundo seems to tire and moreover, doesn't match Fernandinho's pace.

Hard to argue with that, I've not watched Gundogan consistently to know how he fares in terms of stamina and do accept your point about our full backs and the need for the pivot to cover them.

Again rather simplistic but Gundo had 2.2 interceptions per game last season as opposed to Fernandinho's 1.7. Different teams, different leagues, different roles but I still think it's a good indication of how good Gundogan's reading of the game is.

 

[Terra Passenger]

Chiming in, what do you think about our young Fullbacks? Surely they won't be any worse than Seniors the other day.

Not at all sure actually.

Most puzzling for me is why Fernando was given the start over young Garcia.

The only reason I can come up with is that Pep is reluctant to start youth preferring to bring them on slowly - or maybe Garcia has committed some indescreation that we're unaware of.

 

[Terra Passenger]

Hard to argue with that, I've not watched Gundogan consistently to know how he fares in terms of stamina and do accept your point about our full backs and the need for the pivot to cover them.

Again rather simplistic but Gundo had 2.2 interceptions per game last season as opposed to Fernandinho's 1.7. Different teams, different leagues, different roles but I still think it's a good indication of how good Gundogan's reading of the game is.

Agree with Gundogan's defensive prowess.

Gundogan seems to be able to play excellently just about anywhere in midfield. As one of our 8's he'd kill it. But given our current defensive problems... I'd much rather have Fernandinho as our lone 6 than anyone else we have - 2nd choice for me is Garcia.

If ever we play a dual pivot, then Gundogan can slot in perfectly there. And next year when we're able to purchase pacy fullbacks - at that point I'm much more comfortable with the excellent Gundo as our lone "6." A year off though, IMO.

 

[Terra Passenger]

Looked sharp in the short amount of time he was on in Germany's win over Czechoslovakia; nearly had a couple of assists with sharp all around passing. Only drawback is that he appears to have attempted the wrong pass in a breakaway.

 

[Mancini Manus Domini]

Looked sharp in the short amount of time he was on in Germany's win over Czechoslovakia; nearly had a couple of assists with sharp all around passing. Only drawback is that he appears to have attempted the wrong pass in a breakaway.

Given that Germany were playing against two teams he must have performed well.

 

[the blue panther]

I don't u

After the internationals, I'd like to see us go with Dinho-Gundo double pivot with KDB pulling the strings as a sole 10 and not a free 8. Then bring Silva late in the games for impact. And switch between KDB and Dave for cup games etc. to keep them both fresh.

You must be watching different games to me - after the way he has started the season - both for City and Spain - I don't understand how you can say that Silva shouldn't start ANY important game. He has been fantastic - as has KDB. If he loses form or fitness, fine, but not at the moment.
Go back to the drawing board and think again please.