Implication of 25 squad rule is going to be weird...

[Soulboy]

I might be being thick, but am I missing something?

I've read for weeks now that City need a fire-sale to clear away all the unwanted players, that they've got to lose something like 12 professionals to get down to the 25 man squad level... but I've worked it out that, at worst, we might be selling a couple of fringe players.

And nothing worse than that.

Hart
Richards Boateng Kompany Kolarov
Joghnson (A) Toure (Yaya) De Jong Silva
Tevez Adebayor

Given
Zabaleta Toure (Kolo) Lescott Bridge
SWP MILNER (with Ireland going) Barry Bellamy
Jo RSC

Add three others... Taylor, Vieira, Robinho... that's 25.

Balotelli is under 21 so doesn't count... Michael Johnson is injured until the January window so we don't include him...

That leaves Onuoha, Caceido, Logan, Etuhu... who are over 21 and can be released.

At worst they could still be retained and used only for the Carling Cup and UEFA Cup games.

So any talk of us "having" to unload is, in my humble opinion... bollocks!

We don't have to sell Ireland, Bellamy, RSC, Bridge, Jo, SWP... we only need sell if they no longer fit into our plans.

In fact, if we did sell some of our better players we could even be struggling to actually reach the 25 man (over 21) squad size needed!

Or have I misjudged all this..?

 

[Cobwebcat]

I might be being thick, but am I missing something?

I've read for weeks now that City need a fire-sale to clear away all the unwanted players, that they've got to lose something like 12 professionals to get down to the 25 man squad level... but I've worked it out that, at worst, we might be selling a couple of fringe players.

And nothing worse than that.

Hart
Richards Boateng Kompany Kolarov
Joghnson (A) Toure (Yaya) De Jong Silva
Tevez Adebayor

Given
Zabaleta Toure (Kolo) Lescott Bridge
SWP MILNER (with Ireland going) Barry Bellamy
Jo RSC

Add three others... Taylor, Vieira, Robinho... that's 25.

Balotelli is under 21 so doesn't count... Michael Johnson is injured until the January window so we don't include him...

That leaves Onuoha, Caceido, Logan, Etuhu... who are over 21 and can be released.

At worst they could still be retained and used only for the Carling Cup and UEFA Cup games.

So any talk of us "having" to unload is, in my humble opinion... bollocks!

We don't have to sell Ireland, Bellamy, RSC, Bridge, Jo, SWP... we only need sell if they no longer fit into our plans.

In fact, if we did sell some of our better players we could even be struggling to actually reach the 25 man (over 21) squad size needed!

Or have I misjudged all this..?

As of 01/01/2010, which the cut off date, 6 were under 21.

Squad is 38 in number

38-6= 32

Balotelli is 19 so won't count

32-25= 7

Gonzalez has been loaned = 6


Logan
Etuhu
Jo
Caicedo
RSC


and one other. Possibly Onuoha?


If we don't loan or sell then they presumably move into the elite squad (reserves) I expect Robinho to be part of a swap deal for someone so numbers will remain unaltered there.

 

[Soulboy]

I might be being thick, but am I missing something?

I've read for weeks now that City need a fire-sale to clear away all the unwanted players, that they've got to lose something like 12 professionals to get down to the 25 man squad level... but I've worked it out that, at worst, we might be selling a couple of fringe players.

And nothing worse than that.

Hart
Richards Boateng Kompany Kolarov
Joghnson (A) Toure (Yaya) De Jong Silva
Tevez Adebayor

Given
Zabaleta Toure (Kolo) Lescott Bridge
SWP MILNER (with Ireland going) Barry Bellamy
Jo RSC

Add three others... Taylor, Vieira, Robinho... that's 25.

Balotelli is under 21 so doesn't count... Michael Johnson is injured until the January window so we don't include him...

That leaves Onuoha, Caceido, Logan, Etuhu... who are over 21 and can be released.

At worst they could still be retained and used only for the Carling Cup and UEFA Cup games.

So any talk of us "having" to unload is, in my humble opinion... bollocks!

We don't have to sell Ireland, Bellamy, RSC, Bridge, Jo, SWP... we only need sell if they no longer fit into our plans.

In fact, if we did sell some of our better players we could even be struggling to actually reach the 25 man (over 21) squad size needed!

Or have I misjudged all this..?

As of 01/01/2010, which the cut off date, 6 were under 21.

Squad is 38 in number

38-6= 32

Balotelli is 19 so won't count

32-25= 7

Gonzalez has been loaned = 6


Logan
Etuhu
Jo
Caicedo
RSC


and one other. Possibly Onuoha?


If we don't loan or sell then they presumably move into the elite squad (reserves) I expect Robinho to be part of a swap deal for someone so numbers will remain unaltered there.

Hold on a sec... I have Jo and RSC in my 25 man squad... you say they are surplus. So who am I missing out of the squad?

Look at my 25... Have I missed anyone out?

That was my question, to be fair...

 

[Mr Ed (The Stables)]

In a nutshell. It's a shit idea.

Totally agree. Also what happens if a player isn't named in the 25 man squad, who subsequently can't be loaned out or sold to another club. I can see a player in the future challenging this system a la the Bosman ruling from a few years back. Also there will be a lot of footballers who by the nature of this system will find themselves on the dole queue. 92 teams times 25 is how many professional footballers over 21 will be allowed in all leagues in the English game.

 

[Swiss Tony]

Well i'm not gonna cry about players being in the dole queue if they're from the top clubs they'll find another club (is this rule implemented for the lower leagues to?)

I've seen a lot of people say this rule is bollox, but what should the FA do?

I like the idea of increasing the age from 21 to 23. Some players take a bit longer to improve. And some break through only to fade away... but 23 is a good age to have guessed how good they are/ can be...

As has said, European employment law restricts the FA from saying a minimum amount of Europeans in your team, though you could restrict it for non-euro's...

Personally though, I don't think any of this will work especially well.
I reckon a lot of it comes down to the mentality of youth... And I don't necessarily mean "bloody chavs". I look at the schooling system and the parental backing.

Not enough emphasis is put on physical sports at schools and if you don't show outstanding natural ability at most schools from a young age then no one's gonna give a toss to develop you.
Couple this with the namby pamby non-competitive nature being brought into play at pre-schools on their sports days...
Then we've got the mentality as kids to poke fun at people who work hard, preferring to put other kids off from either physical or mental training with pressure to laze about in classes and to muck about with your mates after school rather than training to be better...
Which is where parents come in, if they're not strong enough to help develop the children with their time and effort then it's gonna be a wasted talent...

 

[117 M34]

It may lead to more player exchanges involved in deals due to clubs needing to get players off thier books.

The day when the 25 is announced will be like transfer deadline day with everyone stuck to SSN to see who has made each 25.

Cue endless 'teams' of 11 players being show by SSN who haven't made a squad

 

[Gorton Gruff]

Squad 25 plus 6 under 21
"Home Grown" – 10 (h)
Not “Home Grown” - 15
Under 21 – 6 plus (u21)

Goalkeepers
Given, Hart(h),Taylor(h),

Defence
Full backs:
RB: Boateng, Richards(h),
LB: Kolarov, Bridge(h), Cunningham(u21),

Centre backs:
RCB: Toure(K), Onouha(h), Boyata(u21),
LCB: Lescott(h),Kompany,

Midfield
Defensive midfield: De Jong, Vieira, Ibrahim(u21),
Central midfield: Toure(Y), Milner(h), Barry(h), Zabaleta,
Wide midfield: Johnson(A)(h), SWP(h), Weiss(u21),
Attacking midfield: Silva, Robinho,

Attack
Tevez, Adebayor, Balotelli(u21), Bellamy, Jo, Nimely(u21),

Not included:
Ireland(h), Roque Santa Cruz, Johnson(M)(h), Logan(h), Vidal(h), Etuhu(h)

 

[I remember the kippax]

I think that the introduction of the 25 squad rule will have a massive impact on the Premier League, particularly on the lower rated teams such as Wigan & Bolton and not necessarily on City and the other big clubs, however I think that most posters on here are looking at the wrong end of the stick and at the elite end of our squad, not at the bottom end.

The biggest implication that the new rule will have will be on our Academy! Not only do we have to have a number of "Home Grown" players in the PL but we will be required to have a number of "Academy Products" in our European Squad (4 at the moment I think)

This means therefore that eventually our Academy must be able to produce at least 1/2 players per year, once they reach the age of 21, that can sustain a minimum standard of Top 4/Champions League football to enable the figures to be met. This will be difficult, as a host of teams will now be scouring Europe to find a 16 year old who they predict will be a Champions League standard player by the time he is 22 - difficult isn't it? Arguably our Academy has produced, well have a think about it yourself, and I can only think of 2 players of that standard so far that are in our current squad - and that is ish..

This is why the Academy is being rolled out around the world to scour the globe.....

The real repercussions of this ruling will eventually be that the lower PL teams will get worse as they will only be able to attract sub-standard players (in comparison to the bigger clubs) at 16/17 - thereby causing a bigger gap between the top and bottom. If we take Wigan & City - demographic area is pretty much the same - except that the invitation to come to City would mean that the player's potential is seen as a top footballer at the age of 22 and at the lower end it's PL survival therefore the Wigan's & Boltons of this world are left with the kids who City/United/Liverpool and Everton don't want. The gap becomes bigger, although the law of averages dictates that a diamond could slip through the gap - but then would probably be bought by a bigger club anyway...

Now I don't really care about the Wigan/Bolton/Blackpool clubs but I think this will be the main implication of the 25 squad ruling.

At the top level, that is the 17 foreigner over 21 rule, this will ease itself into a fine tuning event after a couple of years - we have already seen something like it in Petrov out, Silva in - a good player being replaced by a great player, so once the 25 are named there will not be a lot of change there.

What I can also see is shorter term contracts being offered to players, particularly to younger players - maybe 1/2 year contracts to see if they break into the first team within that time and then offered a longer contract and I can also see that reserve keepers will be U21 in future, why waste a valuable place for a keeper that may play only once or twice a season?

Just my thoughts on the implications of the 25 squad ruling - I actually think it is a good thing as our position will show when ours, and every other clubs, is named - and then we will see our strength in depth

Apologies for the long post, but I had to get it off my chest.... ;-)

 

[john@staustell]

As someone pointed out to me the other day, it is the club boards that want this, and the PL. The FA are under the delusion that it is to nurture young English talent, but of course it is a ready-made cost cutter, allowing especially the big clubs to cut their wage bill - maybe not just yet in our case, but surely over time?

Players will be passed to Championship clubs, their players will be passed down, and lower league players will be out of work.

Young foreigners are being signed up by the legion, so the orginal idea will not work for the England squad.

And once a team gets 12 injuries and/or suspensions lets see who gets the 'special circumstances' treatment and who doesn't!