Irish Current Affairs

[mancity2012_eamo]

Wasn't that the year the British king tried eradicate Irish history?

Being a Brit I only get taught how wonderful the empire was and the whole world should be bloody grateful. Standard Tory bollocks.

Luckily I have friends who have guided me through a lot I was never taught about.

It hit home a couple of years ago when I went to Dublin with a friend and visited the wax museum which had a whole floor on Irish history. She spent afterwards googling it all.

Did a bit of digging and The Statutes of Kilkenny were introduced in 1367. Edward the Third was English king and Lord of Ireland or so he declared and these statutes were imposed to try reestablishing Anglo Norman rule over the Gaelic Chieftain Kingdoms. Edwards heir, his grandson Richard the Second was born in 1367 also.

But I’d say it has nothing to do with that.

I’d say LOL stands for Loyal Orange Lodge not Laugh out loud. 1367 would be the lodge number.

 

[ob]

Happy birthday to my wee country

 

[ob]

I am glad Arlene has gone but sad by the fact any of her likely replacements will be of same ilk and more interested in stopping 'themuns' (which happens on both sides) rather than proper every day stuff such as health, housing, education, poverty no matter where you come from

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Wasn’t sure where to post this as I think the implications of Boris Johnson’s latest electioneering actions, because that’s what I believe the timing is, could just as easily fit into the Scottish or Irish threads or the EU relationship thread or even the Bloody Sunday thread.
So I’ll leave the gunships to Jersey out of it and go straight to the reported Amnesty for any legacy crimes committed in Northern Ireland prior to the GFA.

My view is that this timing is because of the elections and he is purely thinking of the British Military not being prosecuted and getting a boost from this in England, but there has been no consultation and he has sprung this on all signed up parties to the Stormont House Agreement managing to piss of All parties in the North, Unionist and Republican, including the victims representative body and the Irish government also, which is an achievement in itself.

Regardless of the merits of there being a line drawn under all atrocities during the troubles in the same vein as the truth and reconciliation process in South Africa. He has managed to sour relations between our two nations to the lowest it has been for decades.
Why? Because the optics of this like Brexit is that he has gone with his own agenda pissing on the GFA which some of us said predicted the problems now with the NIP and now is doing the same with the 2014 Stormont House Agreement.

I think the timing of this and the gunboats to Jersey has as much to do about the election, and probably the SNP in Scotland than any real concern about how he is souring any relationships with your neighbours.

 

[west didsblue]

Wasn’t sure where to post this as I think the implications of Boris Johnson’s latest electioneering actions, because that’s what I believe the timing is, could just as easily fit into the Scottish or Irish threads or the EU relationship thread or even the Bloody Sunday thread.
So I’ll leave the gunships to Jersey out of it and go straight to the reported Amnesty for any legacy crimes committed in Northern Ireland prior to the GFA.

My view is that this timing is because of the elections and he is purely thinking of the British Military not being prosecuted and getting a boost from this in England, but there has been no consultation and he has sprung this on all signed up parties to the Stormount House Agreement managing to piss of All parties in the North, Unionist and Republican, including the victims representative body and the Irish government also, which is an achievement in itself.

Regardless of the merits of there being a line drawn under all atrocities during the troubles in the same vein as the truth and reconciliation process in South Africa. He has managed to sour relations between our two nations to the lowest it has been for decades.
Why? Because the optics of this like Brexit is that he has gone with his own agenda pissing on the GFA which some of us said predicted the problems now with the NIP and now is doing also with the 2014 Stormount House Agreement.

I think the timing of this and the gunboats to Jersey has as much to do about the election, and probably the SNP in Scotland than any real concern about how he is souring any relationships with your neighbours.

He doesn’t give a fuck about souring relations with Ireland and Scotland if it gives him a boost in England. Remaining PM of England is his only priority and if it means the break up of the union then so be it. The Tories should really drop the “and Unionists” from their official title. They’re not even pretending anymore.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

He doesn’t give a fuck about souring relations with Ireland and Scotland if it gives him a boost in England. Remaining PM of England is his only priority and if it means the break up of the union then so be it. The Tories should really drop the “and Unionists” from their official title. They’re not even pretending anymore.

Wish I got the guys name, but I watched The View tonight on BBC NI and one of the Westminster NI correspondents more or less said that, regarding who the DUP vote as leader next.
He felt the view in Westminster with a lot of the Tory backbenchers is that they are sick of them and they will leave them stew in it, regarding the NIP.

 

[Coatigan]

Wasn’t sure where to post this as I think the implications of Boris Johnson’s latest electioneering actions, because that’s what I believe the timing is, could just as easily fit into the Scottish or Irish threads or the EU relationship thread or even the Bloody Sunday thread.
So I’ll leave the gunships to Jersey out of it and go straight to the reported Amnesty for any legacy crimes committed in Northern Ireland prior to the GFA.

My view is that this timing is because of the elections and he is purely thinking of the British Military not being prosecuted and getting a boost from this in England, but there has been no consultation and he has sprung this on all signed up parties to the Stormont House Agreement managing to piss of All parties in the North, Unionist and Republican, including the victims representative body and the Irish government also, which is an achievement in itself.

Regardless of the merits of there being a line drawn under all atrocities during the troubles in the same vein as the truth and reconciliation process in South Africa. He has managed to sour relations between our two nations to the lowest it has been for decades.
Why? Because the optics of this like Brexit is that he has gone with his own agenda pissing on the GFA which some of us said predicted the problems now with the NIP and now is doing the same with the 2014 Stormont House Agreement.

I think the timing of this and the gunboats to Jersey has as much to do about the election, and probably the SNP in Scotland than any real concern about how he is souring any relationships with your neighbours.

And it is working (for him).

 

[Magicpole]

How the fuck can any grown adult who believes the below can be anywhere near power, never mind top dog? She believes.

The world is 6,000 years old.
Dinosaurs lived alongside people.
The Ark and global flood was a real thing.
Evolution is not true.
Bushes burning can talk.
Creationism is real.
Homosexuality is a choice

She wears a sash. That's it.

As for the new moron, he was quoted as saying Catholic's are to blame for spreading Covid. I didn't know India had so many. He also believes all of the above.

In Northern Ireland all it seems to take to be elected to high office, is a hatred of Catholics and a love of marching. The fact most of the unionists don't believe the above shite, they still vote for them and until they leave the 17th century not another **** on these islands cares about, they will remain a weird and unfathomable mystery.

Sure it is old.......very very old. Move the fuck on. Both communities working class are being fucked over, but that is forgotten in favour of the Fleg. There are a few.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

How the fuck can any grown adult who believes the below can be anywhere near power, never mind top dog? She believes.

The world is 6,000 years old.
Dinosaurs lived alongside people.
The Ark and global flood was a real thing.
Evolution is not true.
Bushes burning can talk.
Creationism is real.
Homosexuality is a choice

She wears a sash. That's it.

As for the new moron, he was quoted as saying Catholic's are to blame for spreading Covid. I didn't know India had so many. He also believes all of the above.

In Northern Ireland all it seems to take to be elected to high office, is a hatred of Catholics and a love of marching. The fact most of the unionists don't believe the above shite, they still vote for them and until they leave the 17th century not another **** on these islands cares about, they will remain a weird and unfathomable mystery.

Sure it is old.......very very old. Move the fuck on. Both communities working class are being fucked over, but that is forgotten in favour of the Fleg. There are a few.

Remember, it could be argued that the other half...ie those coming a very close second just needed a hatred of Protestants and a hatred of marching.....its aint totally one sided.

People voting for the likes of the DUP do not give a shite about those things listed. They vote for the DUP because they promise them they will keep them in the Union....and will stop a United Ireland. Thats it. They dont lead on those points...they do not promote the DUP as such...they are not party policies, they may well be personal beliefs of many members...but its not those issues that get them voted in.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Wasn’t sure where to post this as I think the implications of Boris Johnson’s latest electioneering actions, because that’s what I believe the timing is, could just as easily fit into the Scottish or Irish threads or the EU relationship thread or even the Bloody Sunday thread.
So I’ll leave the gunships to Jersey out of it and go straight to the reported Amnesty for any legacy crimes committed in Northern Ireland prior to the GFA.

My view is that this timing is because of the elections and he is purely thinking of the British Military not being prosecuted and getting a boost from this in England, but there has been no consultation and he has sprung this on all signed up parties to the Stormont House Agreement managing to piss of All parties in the North, Unionist and Republican, including the victims representative body and the Irish government also, which is an achievement in itself.

Regardless of the merits of there being a line drawn under all atrocities during the troubles in the same vein as the truth and reconciliation process in South Africa. He has managed to sour relations between our two nations to the lowest it has been for decades.
Why? Because the optics of this like Brexit is that he has gone with his own agenda pissing on the GFA which some of us said predicted the problems now with the NIP and now is doing the same with the 2014 Stormont House Agreement.

I think the timing of this and the gunboats to Jersey has as much to do about the election, and probably the SNP in Scotland than any real concern about how he is souring any relationships with your neighbours.

He gets more Trumpian by the day and is emboldened to be even worse when he gets away with shit. It is truly disturbing that the worse he behaves the more popular he seems to become.

The damage he is doing to relationships with our closest friends and neighbours is quite sickening to watch. He has no opposition. Not the media who should be holding him to account and highlighting his behaviour for what it is. Not the Labour party for sure. Starmer is undoubtedly clever but why isnt he fucking furious at what is going on in this bloody country. Where is his fight? Johnson is not deliberately picking fights with neighbours its just some of the stuff that plays well with the media involves him 'sticking it to someone'. His entire political career is based on saving us from invented enemies. He certainly wasn't going to stop once he got Brexit 'done'.

Instead of steering the country through the most dangerous and complex period I can think of, he is operating day to day on what will play to the press. Thats it. Thats all. He has taken a small part of what is part and parcel of politics and government and fed it until it is simply the only thing left. Playing to the gallery, working the press popularity is all consuming and who cares how much he lies and deceives to achieve that. If we become world pariahs but he wins the next election he will consider that a job well done.

He is an empty shell of a politician, no substance, no integrity, no decency.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Wish I got the guys name, but I watched The View tonight on BBC NI and one of the Westminster NI correspondents more or less said that, regarding who the DUP vote as leader next.
He felt the view in Westminster with a lot of the Tory backbenchers is that they are sick of them and they will leave them stew in it, regarding the NIP.

Was that Stephen Pound (ex-Labour MP)?

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

This'll be some craic :(

Ballymurphy families anxious over inquest findings

The findings into the deaths of 10 people in west Belfast in 1972 will be published on Tuesday.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Was that Stephen Pound (ex-Labour MP)?

Yes that’s the guy, I believe.
I found him in a search of The View from 06/05/21.
I don’t have a link as I can’t get the BBC iPlayer, but he said done interesting things.

He says the DUP have some serious decisions and questions to ask themselves. There are answers to everything, it just takes dialogue and patience.
They cannot just keeping saying No and wish things away.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

How the fuck can any grown adult who believes the below can be anywhere near power, never mind top dog? She believes.

The world is 6,000 years old.
Dinosaurs lived alongside people.
The Ark and global flood was a real thing.
Evolution is not true.
Bushes burning can talk.
Creationism is real.
Homosexuality is a choice

She wears a sash. That's it.

As for the new moron, he was quoted as saying Catholic's are to blame for spreading Covid. I didn't know India had so many. He also believes all of the above.

In Northern Ireland all it seems to take to be elected to high office, is a hatred of Catholics and a love of marching. The fact most of the unionists don't believe the above shite, they still vote for them and until they leave the 17th century not another **** on these islands cares about, they will remain a weird and unfathomable mystery.

Sure it is old.......very very old. Move the fuck on. Both communities working class are being fucked over, but that is forgotten in favour of the Fleg. There are a few.

I believe sectarianism is not something invented in Northern Ireland. It is something that was imported in with the plantation of Ulster perhaps, but the whole of the Union was founded on it.

Certainly in Ireland Catholics were never equal citizens, which is part of the reason why being part of the UK was never accepted down through the generations over here.
The act of union was 1801 and Daniel O’Connell didn’t force Catholic Emancipation until 1829.
Universities weren’t open to Catholics until 1871.

Daniel O’Connell | Irish Political Leader & Activist | Britannica

Daniel O’Connell was a lawyer who became the first great 19th-century Irish nationalist leader. Compelled to leave the Roman Catholic college at Douai, France, when the French Revolution broke out, O’Connell went to London to study law, and in 1798 he was called to the Irish bar. His forensic skill

www.britannica.com

 

[Magicpole]

Remember, it could be argued that the other half...ie those coming a very close second just needed a hatred of Protestants and a hatred of marching.....its aint totally one sided.

People voting for the likes of the DUP do not give a shite about those things listed. They vote for the DUP because they promise them they will keep them in the Union....and will stop a United Ireland. Thats it. They dont lead on those points...they do not promote the DUP as such...they are not party policies, they may well be personal beliefs of many members...but its not those issues that get them voted in.

I didn't mean to infer it was one sided. It clearly isn't, and I did say the majority of unionists don't believe in that bollocks. I know they vote to stay in the UK. That won't change until the nationalist population is the majority. For nearly 100 years the majority thing was front and centre of the unionist argument. How will that promotion of democratic will go when they no longer are? My bet is all the previous declarations will be forgotten and we will have violence. One more thing has confused me, why did all the rioters vote for Brexit, then go nuts when it ended the way everyone, not Boris, said it would? A border. Is that why Arlene had to leave stage left?

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I didn't mean to infer it was one sided. It clearly isn't, and I did say the majority of unionists don't believe in that bollocks. I know they vote to stay in the UK. That won't change until the nationalist population is the majority. For nearly 100 years the majority thing was front and centre of the unionist argument. How will that promotion of democratic will go when they no longer are? My bet is all the previous declarations will be forgotten and we will have violence. One more thing has confused me, why did all the rioters vote for Brexit, then go nuts when it ended the way everyone, not Boris, said it would? A border. Is that why Arlene had to leave stage left?

Basically that’s where they were 100 years ago.
Devolution was voted on and carried by a big majority in 1912 but first, WW1 got in the way and then Carson and a very real threat of violence got in the way.

Northern Ireland was set up using 6 counties of the province of Ulster ensuring a Protestant Unionist majority.

My guess is you are correct. There will be a threat of violence again when that majority is no more.

Democracy is great when you are in the majority, not all it’s cracked up to be when you’re not, it seems.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Yes that’s the guy, I believe.
I found him in a search of The View from 06/05/21.
I don’t have a link as I can’t get the BBC iPlayer, but he said done interesting things.

He says the DUP have some serious decisions and questions to ask themselves. There are answers to everything, it just takes dialogue and patience.
They cannot just keeping saying No and wish things away.

Yes, I thought he was very clear and obviously spoke from a position of knowledge. You'd think that Johnson ditching them to sign the WA would suggest that he shouldn't be trusted, and therefore they need someone else's support.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

He gets more Trumpian by the day and is emboldened to be even worse when he gets away with shit. It is truly disturbing that the worse he behaves the more popular he seems to become.

The damage he is doing to relationships with our closest friends and neighbours is quite sickening to watch. He has no opposition. Not the media who should be holding him to account and highlighting his behaviour for what it is. Not the Labour party for sure. Starmer is undoubtedly clever but why isnt he fucking furious at what is going on in this bloody country. Where is his fight? Johnson is not deliberately picking fights with neighbours its just some of the stuff that plays well with the media involves him 'sticking it to someone'. His entire political career is based on saving us from invented enemies. He certainly wasn't going to stop once he got Brexit 'done'.

Instead of steering the country through the most dangerous and complex period I can think of, he is operating day to day on what will play to the press. Thats it. Thats all. He has taken a small part of what is part and parcel of politics and government and fed it until it is simply the only thing left. Playing to the gallery, working the press popularity is all consuming and who cares how much he lies and deceives to achieve that. If we become world pariahs but he wins the next election he will consider that a job well done.

He is an empty shell of a politician, no substance, no integrity, no decency.

There is so much at play at the moment in politics in Britain and Ireland that could have a domino effect for our possible futures.

I watched Nationwide on RTE this evening after the news. It was about the Queen’s visit to Ireland in 2011. It was a high in relations between our countries and offered real optimism because of the genuine welcome that was offered and how it was received.
Irish people in general were impressed by the effort made and the significance of her actions.

This fecker seems determined to piss everyone on the island off.
He’s managed to unite opinion both north and south, nationalist and unionist, while simultaneously bringing tensions between all sides to dangerous levels again. That in itself is an achievement.

Basically he’s totally untrustworthy. How can you work with him.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I didn't mean to infer it was one sided. It clearly isn't, and I did say the majority of unionists don't believe in that bollocks. I know they vote to stay in the UK. That won't change until the nationalist population is the majority. For nearly 100 years the majority thing was front and centre of the unionist argument. How will that promotion of democratic will go when they no longer are? My bet is all the previous declarations will be forgotten and we will have violence. One more thing has confused me, why did all the rioters vote for Brexit, then go nuts when it ended the way everyone, not Boris, said it would? A border. Is that why Arlene had to leave stage left?

Not to labour the point, as I know most in here have no interest in ancient Irish history. And this is only my perspective on things anyway.

But, the recent (last 100+ years) situation where nationalism and republicanism is split along sectarian lines in the North, is not how the nationalist history runs in Ireland as a whole.
Some of the most prominent patriots in our last few centuries history with England are Protestant. Daniel O’Connell was following on in the tradition of Henry Grattan who although a Protestant, campaigned for Catholic emancipation and the rights for the Irish parliament to legislate for itself.
He opposed the Act of Union and fought to restore the Irish Parliament until his death.
He’s buried in Westminster.
Wolfe Tone was Protestant. Prominent Protestants fought for Irish independence all the way up to Charles Stewart Parnell who was succeeded by John Redmond who eventually won the vote for home rule but was too weak to see it through, some argue.

Even in the 1916 Rising it is often forgotten that Protestants fought also for a more equitable society, a socialist republic, that a lot of historians conclude was never achieved.

I’m of the opinion that there are enough mistakes on both sides after that, that we all should learn from. Although some look at him as a national hero, my own opinion of how De Valera was complicit in the rewriting of the Rising and the Clergy taking over the new state, was every bit as toxic and unwelcoming as the Ulster unionists rejection of democracy and gerrymandering to keep power.


The world has moved on though and as relevant when talking about Brexit, as it is the EU or a United Ireland, future problems will be global and will need to be dealt with collectively.
Greater cooperation will be needed between countries and firstly you would hope you are dealing with people you can trust to honour the deals they make.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

This'll be some craic :(

Ballymurphy families anxious over inquest findings

The findings into the deaths of 10 people in west Belfast in 1972 will be published on Tuesday.

www.bbc.co.uk

Ballymurphy Inquest: Coroner finds 10 victims were innocent

A priest and a mother of eight were among 10 people killed in Belfast after an Army operation in 1971.

www.bbc.co.uk

Ten people killed in west Belfast almost 50 years ago in the wake of an Army operation were "entirely innocent", an inquest has found.

The inquest, which began in November 2018, examined the deaths in and around the Ballymurphy area of west Belfast in August 1971.
The shootings happened after an operation in which paramilitary suspects were detained without trial.
Victims included a priest trying to help the wounded and a mother of eight.
Nine of the 10 victims were killed by the Army, the coroner said.
The coroner could not definitively say who shot the tenth victim, John McKerr.
Coroner, Mrs Justice Keegan, delivered her findings on Tuesday over the course of more than two hours.


The killings happened over three days immediately following the introduction of internment - the arrest and detention of paramilitary suspects without trial.
The court heard almost 100 days of evidence from more than 150 witnesses.
These included more than 60 former soldiers, more than 30 civilians and experts in ballistics, pathology and engineering.
Mrs Justice Keegan said that the effect of the killings on the families of the 10 victims have been "stark".
"What is very clear, is that all of the deceased in the serious of inquests were entirely innocent of wrongdoing on the day in question," Mrs Justice Keegan said.
Inquests were held into the deaths in 1972, but they were separate and returned open verdicts.
The new inquests, which began in November 2018, have been held together.




For extra context, this incident (amongst others) was very much a catalyst for the protests in Derry a few months later

The August 1971 killings took place as troops swept through republican districts, rounding up suspects for internment without trial, a move that prompted violent protests across Northern Ireland.

The inquest heard that some of the dead appeared to have been shot by members of the Parachute Regiment, the same regiment that five months later massacred protesters at County Derry on Bloody Sunday.