Is now the time to consider Mancini's tenure at the club

I don't think the team is as talented as it's made out. If you take our squad 1-25 and compare them to the other clubs in the PL 1-25 then yes I think we're more talented. The problem is only 11 players are on the field. So having more talented 12-25 doesn't do any good. If you compare our top 11 then it's pretty comparable to the other top clubs in our league and not as strong as the top clubs in Europe.

Yes Dortmund lost Kagawa and people expected them to drop their level but they added Reus and Gotzer who I believe are each equally talented as Kagawa. If we can say that Munich is more talented than us then clearly Dortmund is as well. They have beat Munich all 3 times they met last year & both times in 10-11. Won the league the last 2 years and the German cup last year. Clearly they are a great team. We shouldn't be that surprised.
 
Interesting article from the independent, oh and there is mention of that man again...

Some discernible patterns of behaviour are becoming clear in Roberto Mancini, and they are always at their most visible when Manchester City have had a bad night.

One, used for the fourth time in Amsterdam late on Wednesday, is his vague claim that defeat was all his own fault, which is never backed up by an explanation and is increasingly obviously a device to obstruct a proper press conference discussion about what has just gone wrong.

Another is Mancini's trait of letting players have it, in the intense knot of media interviews which follow a game. It was Joe Hart's turn last month, when the goalkeeper's honesty about the defensive failings which saw a 2-1 lead sacrificed in the last five minutes at the Bernabeu provoked the manager's ire, 10 minutes later. "If anyone should criticise the team it should be me, not Joe Hart. I am the judge, not Joe Hart," Mancini said. The players – among whom Hart is the most popular figure of all – were less than impressed when they reached their seats for the flight home from Madrid and found Twitter awash with Mancini's barbed comments.

Hart has kept his counsel on the manager's words, of course, though a number of the players are understood to be less than impressed by this trend. There is a sense that Mancini's sharpest public words tend to be reserved for the players who will not kick up. Micah Richards knew how Hart felt that night on the Madrid runway because he's taken public criticism. So, too, has Gareth Barry and Adam Johnson, who has now taken his skills to Sunderland.

The names also reveal how the English contingent get more than their fair share of it from Mancini and on Wednesday night it was Joleon Lescott. Substituted six minutes after his mistake allowed Ajax their equaliser, the defender got some touchline Glasnost from the manager as he left the field. And if he checked Twitter on the Schipol runway, he'd have read the manager's not-so-veiled sarcasm. "It's my fault because I didn't tell him to jump," Mancini said of Lescott's error. The 30-year-old has learned to be phlegmatic about these things. He's known for months that Mancini has been eyeing a big-name defender to replace him – David Luiz and Fabricio Coloccini as well the advertised interest in Daniel Agger this summer. Then Matija Nastasic was hired and installed as first pick for the big games. Certainly, Lescott's season has had its imperfections, but this doesn't feel like terribly good management.

The detail is relevant to the analysis of why City are incapable in Europe while very capable across the course of a domestic season because it reveals why Mancini's players don't look like they'll run through walls for this boss. They have delivered two away wins out of seven for him on the Continent.

Mancini's experimentation is also a source of concern to the senior players, because Mancini really doesn't seem to know which personnel he wants and what his plan should be. Four systems in the course of one game - 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2, 3-5-2, 3-3-4 – said it all in Amsterdam. While Ajax, like Borussia Dortmund three weeks earlier, were an organic unit aware of the task in hand, City's entire midfield and attacking lines were rotated when the side went 1-0 up – as if they could afford to fiddle. Barry offered a telling comparison of City and Ajax yesterday. "They played in the style they have played for many years, by keeping the ball. We are not sure at the moment what the problem [is]," he said.

The new, three-man defence underlines the influence of Mancini's new defensive coach Angelo Gregucci, his former assistant at Fiorentina, whose arrival this summer offered more evidence that the manager only really trusts the Italians. It also provided the need for an extra training-ground translator, because Gregucci doesn't speak English yet. The new formation has looked vulnerable before – at Anfield in August, where City went a goal behind and were very lucky to escape with a 2-2 draw. Is Mancini's persistence with it an attempt to cast himself as the tactical technician to match Jose Mourinho, the man who delivered Internazionale the European trophy which he could not? Perhaps. Publicly, Mancini has said little about the decision to abandon last year's fairly dependable back four, but Richards' suggestion that they haven't practised it that much made the use of it on Wednesday night a fairly remarkable gamble.

Success in Europe is actually about having a very definite plan and sticking to it, as the example of one of the Champions League's great over-achievers of modern times proves only too well. That man, Rafael Benitez, has said that European knock-out competition is about "the management of 180 minutes, the tactical preparation needed to overcome opponents expected to beat us" and he should know. Take a look again at the Liverpool side who beat Milan in the Champions League final in 2005, including Djimi Traoré, Harry Kewell and Milan Baros. You can't imagine Mancini fancying that lot. "We had to make the best use of what we had," is how Benitez has summed up that night in Istanbul and it is a salutary lesson to any manager hooked on spending for success. Mancini ought to know this. When his Inter side faced Liverpool in the Champions League last 16 in 2008, Benitez singled out centre-back Marco Materazzi as the weak link and repeatedly showed his players DVDs of an overlapping Maicon, now at City, being caught out of position. Materazzi, overwhelmed by Fernando Torres, was sent off in the first leg, his replacement Nicolas Burdisso got red in the second and Liverpool won the tie 3-0, leading Mancini to declare he was quitting after the 1-0 home defeat at San Siro. It was one of many difficult nights in a competition which has eluded and haunted him ever since defeat as a player with Sampdoria in the 1992 final, when he seriously lost it with the referee in the 1-0 defeat against Barcelona at Wembley. As his manager Vujadin Boskov put it afterwards, Mancini just "wasn't with it" on that occasion either.

The City manager will point to his club's failure to deliver the players they wanted in the transfer market, like Agger and Eden Hazard, if they are now eliminated. But the spirit which Frank de Boer engendered in a very young group of players on Wednesday night, each playing to restore the glories of Johan Cruyff and make history, suggests that it is time for Mancini to accept that less is more. Time to settle on a team, make a plan and stick to it.

Roberto Mancini began with the 4-2-3-1 formation he regularly uses in the Premier League. Joleon Lescott was favoured ahead of Matija Nastasic for the first time in Europe this season, while Micah Richards was recalled at right-back.

After Samir Nasri had put City ahead, Mancini opted to change to a more defensive 4-4-2 set-up. Yaya Touré was withdrawn to a more central role, with James Milner moved out on to the right wing. Sergio Aguero was moved up front.

Two Ajax goals either side of half-time changed the tie and Mancini tinkered again, taking off Joleon Lescott and adopting a 3-5-2 style. Aleksandr Kolarov played on the left wing, with Gaël Clichy and Micah Richards in a defensive three.
 
After the season we had last year Mancini will always have a place in our history. I'm really indifferent about the whole situation, but he doesn't deserve to go. We will never experience those raw emotions like we did last year, the 1 - 6, the 93rd minute, it will never been matched... All thanks to Mancini.

The European performances have been a let down, but we HAVE been grouped in two extremely hard groups which gave us no time to get settled in the competition. But it's been poor, and It's something we were aware of when we signed him up as manager. We're not going to win everything, let's see what happens in the other cups and league.

My main concern is that he is not using the squad more effectively, especially in Europe, and some of his recruitment this summer have been questionable (but who knows, this may be down to other people's approval). In Europe his trying to hard and it's not working, we've paid the ultimate price.

But it's all about expectations. Should we be performing better? We have started the season very, very lethargic... But, we are still up there in the league AND IF we get our awesome form we saw a little bit vs Sunderland, then this will all be put to bed. Time will tell.
 
Mr. Aguia said:
I don't think the team is as talented as it's made out. If you take our squad 1-25 and compare them to the other clubs in the PL 1-25 then yes I think we're more talented. The problem is only 11 players are on the field. So having more talented 12-25 doesn't do any good. If you compare our top 11 then it's pretty comparable to the other top clubs in our league and not as strong as the top clubs in Europe.

Yes Dortmund lost Kagawa and people expected them to drop their level but they added Reus and Gotzer who I believe are each equally talented as Kagawa. If we can say that Munich is more talented than us then clearly Dortmund is as well. They have beat Munich all 3 times they met last year & both times in 10-11. Won the league the last 2 years and the German cup last year. Clearly they are a great team. We shouldn't be that surprised.

Reus and Gotzer are far more gifted than kagawa. They also have superior football brain than him.

Dortmund did not lose him. Kagawa was told by Dortmund that he would not be in their future plan. As they had already secured Reus in January, Kagawa had no choice but leave in summer. Since he moved to PL, his lack of talents has been exposed. Kagawa is a overrated, hyped up mediocrity. The rags bought him to get lucrative sponsor deals.
 
Rocket-footed kolarov said:
Freestyler said:
Don't agree with his comments today, he's on the verge of losing the dressing room.

So he says the players should be able to adjust, if they can't then they're no good enough? ermmmm he bought the players himself.

Truth is, he doesn't know what he's doing in Europe.

and when you consider it just becomes nonsense; Clichy cannot play as a CB his game and his physical attributes do not make him suited to this role, and he should n't end up playing RB either, he was exposed there against Sporting, surely that was enough for Mancini to realise to NEVER PLAY HIM THERE AGAIN. If he wants full backs that can switch to play CB he should of bought 1, Micah might work in that formation, the only snag is that he was n't with us during pre-season.

Tactical switches can work wonders; the key is preparation and application.

Mancini has shown himself to be lacking in these areas, Benitez appears much better in these areas, Mancini likes to pretend to be a tactical genius but he is n't, he proclaimed that there would be no more tactical evolution only improvement in physical conditioning. This is where he falls down for me, if you are not open to new ideas then you fail to spot them, even minor nuances can alter games and become solutions. Benitez shines out as a great candidate for his successor, if Mancini addresses his problems in Europe there is no need for the change but I have come to the realisation he never will.

The only obstacle to European success for Mancini is himself if he does n't realise this and address it then the club is left with little option but to sack him.


Watch this and tell me Benitez would n't make a good successor, he is even more media savvy than Mancini.

http://vimeo.com/51136791#


That'd be the Benitez who spent a shit load of cash at Liverpool on dross.The Benitez whos Liverpool team threw away a title.Went to Inter and did nothing.Sure he was capable in Europe with a Liverpool team that were Seeded to do well.He's obviously a decent coach/tactician,but better than Mancini? Your either joking or your a Liverpool fan.
 
I just don't think we are a champion's league club. Maybe that's because of Mancini, maybe it isn't. I don't think its worth of it to get rid of him. After all we are the champions and sit in 3rd place. No reason to change management.
 
100 pages of utter fuckin drivel.

Pathetic .

United 10 years
Chelsea 10 years
Arsenal still waiting

And some of you expect success in less than 2 seasons
FFS it's our 2nd season in the competition
We are nowhere near ready and FFP will ensure we take the long route but I tell you what we
WILL BE CHAMPIONS OF EUROPE one day

Please end this thread
 
Freestyler said:
Cobwebcat said:
Freestyler said:
I'm not Didsbury Dave though am i.

We'll never get anywhere in Europe under Mancini, sacked at Inter for it, couldn't deliver. Hasn't learnt from last season, and getting worse in Europe this season.

The fact you still defend our performance and managers tactics from wednesday is staggering, its just desperate.

Tell me what you mean by "in Europe" are you talking about Norway or Malta?

Explain how Mancini isn't as clever as you tactically.

What did you make of the stats showing Mancini the third best manager in the history of the prem?

Would you have sacked Bacon last season for going out of the CL at the group stage and winning nothing? If not why?

Champions League.

Did i say i was more clever tactically? all i'm gonna say is after 10 minutes (and not just me) i identified the right wing problem at Ajax. Neville said it, everyone did. Mancini didn't, 20 minutes later an inevitable goal appears. Just one example of many...

Ferguson is proven in Europe, put his kids out different story. Never played his strongest side. 250mill of players get a lesson of a bunch of ajax lads. Dortmund once again, a team put together which wasn't the best. The manager churned them into a good football side, once again another team who played us off the pitch.

Mancini would need ALOT of money to make us a better team, he couldn't improve players much by his own standards or the team. But a hefty amount of cash would...

Dortmund are by far the perfect example.

Yeah BaconChops is proven in Europe he's won 3 European trophies in 20 years are you going to give Mancini that much time?
 
toffee balls said:
100 pages of utter fuckin drivel.

Pathetic .

United 10 years
Chelsea 10 years
Arsenal still waiting

And some of you expect success in less than 2 seasons
FFS it's our 2nd season in the competition
We are nowhere near ready and FFP will ensure we take the long route but I tell you what we
WILL BE CHAMPIONS OF EUROPE one day

Please end this thread
There are some absolutely pathetic statements across this thread, in my opinion and your statement is the reason why. I'm not quite sure what people expect but it is quite astonishing how expectations have been mired by the owners wealth.

People are claiming that Mancini's future is on tenterhooks, fueled by the media obsession to disparage our club at every turn. If I didn't know better, one could believe that some of the said media are actually on this board, trying to undermine our support for our team. But like I said, I should no better and that's what makes it worse.

Mancini's future is safe, he's not going to move on unless we fall apart in the PL. How do I know this? Because the club told us so when they gave Mancini a 5 year contract and stated that the PL was our priority.

I used to have a go at Rags and how they followed their club, not supported, for the glow of the reflected glory. I will not do that now.

I believed that Blues wouldn't be sharpening knives after a setback but I was seriously naive. Last year after the Arsenal game, this year after the Ajax game, some are becoming what I hoped would never be.
 
So sack him ok. Then bring in who? what is then the criteria for success for the new guy? Roberto is staying, just signed a five year contract. Already in PL we are in equalient fixtures to last season F+3 A-2 Pts+4
 

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