Is now the time to consider Mancini's tenure at the club

[Nevizade]

True, but beside the point. It's not the way I want our club to act, and in the long term I think it will cause damage to Chelsea.

You don't rate what Chelsea have done but their trophy haul in recent years is not to be dismissed. I don't believe you need to keep a manager for decades to ensure success

I've been thinking about this and Chelsea is an interesting case. They spent a lot of money pre-Mourinho but he was the manager that put it all together and won two consecutive titles. He also established the basis for their system, which was anchored by an exceptional spine - Cech, Terry, Lampard, Drogba - and a good supporting cast. Even Avram Grant nearly won the CL playing the Mourinho system with those players.

Managers like Scolari and AVB tried to screw around with it and fucked up because the players knew the system that JM introdiced played to their strengths. They had to do something different at some point though and Di Matteo did that, plus it helped that they won the CL as they could attract decent players as the old guard started to move aside. However it took a bit of tactical tweaking from Benitez to get that little bit extra out of them and get them performing to the level they should be.

Mancini has half-done what Mourinho did for them but he can't seem to take it forward as teams adapt to our style. So while our worry is that Mourinho may not be interested in building a dynasty over 10 years, would it be worth getting him in for 2 or 3 years just to establish that winning mentality and system? Then let the next manager (Klopp, Guardiola or someone else) build for the long term on what JM might have put in place?

Interesting point about Mourinho building a dynasty. Granted, we all know he hasn't necessarily shown the intention to do that at any of his previous clubs. However, once he comes back to England (and he will), where else is there for him to go? He's 'done' Italy with Inter, and apart from Juve the established clubs are on their arses financially. Bayern - would the challenge there be enough? Ditto PSG. I think we can safely rule out Barcelona and therefore Spain, therefore I think his next job will be an extended stay, possibly before he goes to manage a national team. I don't actively want Mancini out but were Mourinho available I really don't think our hierarchy could say no to him. The 'challenge' to build that dynasty at our great football club is surely one of the most appealing in world football and I think he would be the perfect fit.

 

[moomba]

You don't rate what Chelsea have done but their trophy haul in recent years is not to be dismissed. I don't believe you need to keep a manager for decades to ensure success

I've been thinking about this and Chelsea is an interesting case. They spent a lot of money pre-Mourinho but he was the manager that put it all together and won two consecutive titles. He also established the basis for their system, which was anchored by an exceptional spine - Cech, Terry, Lampard, Drogba - and a good supporting cast. Even Avram Grant nearly won the CL playing the Mourinho system with those players.

Managers like Scolari and AVB tried to screw around with it and fucked up because the players knew the system that JM introdiced played to their strengths. They had to do something different at some point though and Di Matteo did that, plus it helped that they won the CL as they could attract decent players as the old guard started to move aside. However it took a bit of tactical tweaking from Benitez to get that little bit extra out of them and get them performing to the level they should be.

Mancini has half-done what Mourinho did for them but he can't seem to take it forward as teams adapt to our style. So while our worry is that Mourinho may not be interested in building a dynasty over 10 years, would it be worth getting him in for 2 or 3 years just to establish that winning mentality and system? Then let the next manager (Klopp, Guardiola or someone else) build for the long term on what JM might have put in place?

Interesting point about Mourinho building a dynasty. Granted, we all know he hasn't necessarily shown the intention to do that at any of his previous clubs. However, once he comes back to England (and he will), where else is there for him to go? He's 'done' Italy with Inter, and apart from Juve the established clubs are on their arses financially. Bayern - would the challenge there be enough? Ditto PSG. I think we can safely rule out Barcelona and therefore Spain, therefore I think his next job will be an extended stay, possibly before he goes to manage a national team. I don't actively want Mancini out but were Mourinho available I really don't think our hierarchy could say no to him. The 'challenge' to build that dynasty at our great football club is surely one of the most appealing in world football and I think he would be the perfect fit.

Portugal

 

[Blumers Bloomers]

I'm holding on to the hope that now most pundits and some fans have written us off this season, we may go on a decent run - just as we did after the Arsenal game last year when the pressure was lifted off us.

 

[grim up north]

IF it becomes 9/10 point gap on Saturday then I reckon it would result in the trigger being pulled. It's always going to be easier to make the decision at a low point as there ends up being far less fallout with the media, if we waited until the end of the season and managed to claw it back to say 3/4 points then we'd get murders for sacking Bob at that point.

Sadly I think Mancini will limp on through to the end of the season regardless of results. I've no idea what the thoughts of Txiki and Ferran are, but I don't think they'll be too concerned with losing out on the league this season, and will probably just see it as an easier way to get their own man in in the summer.

Mancini for his part has it in him to completely implode, however I think he can see in the tea leaves that the two new guys can't be trifled with, and will protect his pay off. He will have learned from his brain fart resignation at Inter.

Very funny and very interesting that we're going into January and it's the first time since Mancini's come in that he's not demanding new players - and in fact was quoted the other day as saying the players he has are good enough. Quite a turn around.

It's an unfortunate consequence of new contracts that managers get the opportunity to not be overly concerned about getting the bullet. That said I think that Bob will be full justified in picking up a payout for what he has achieved over the last 3 years.

If this was just a stutter then I think Ferran and Txiki would probably cut Bob some slack but the fact that we are half way through the season and still not hitting form then I reckon the knives will be out.

Assuming they don't see Bob as being long term for us, and obviously that's not a given, then it comes down to timing and I reckon they'd see a 9/10 point gap as ample reason to pull the trigger without being overly worried about how it gets portrayed in the media - bear in mind that Bob is now second, behind Brian McDermott, in the sack race odds....

I'm sure the board will be heading down to the bookies as we speak

 

[daztrueblue91]

True, but beside the point. It's not the way I want our club to act, and in the long term I think it will cause damage to Chelsea.

You don't rate what Chelsea have done but their trophy haul in recent years is not to be dismissed. I don't believe you need to keep a manager for decades to ensure success

I've been thinking about this and Chelsea is an interesting case. They spent a lot of money pre-Mourinho but he was the manager that put it all together and won two consecutive titles. He also established the basis for their system, which was anchored by an exceptional spine - Cech, Terry, Lampard, Drogba - and a good supporting cast. Even Avram Grant nearly won the CL playing the Mourinho system with those players.

Managers like Scolari and AVB tried to screw around with it and fucked up because the players knew the system that JM introdiced played to their strengths. They had to do something different at some point though and Di Matteo did that, plus it helped that they won the CL as they could attract decent players as the old guard started to move aside. However it took a bit of tactical tweaking from Benitez to get that little bit extra out of them and get them performing to the level they should be.

Mancini has half-done what Mourinho did for them but he can't seem to take it forward as teams adapt to our style. So while our worry is that Mourinho may not be interested in building a dynasty over 10 years, would it be worth getting him in for 2 or 3 years just to establish that winning mentality and system? Then let the next manager (Klopp, Guardiola or someone else) build for the long term on what JM might have put in place?

I started a thread about a month ago about managerial stability which turned into a Mancini out thread. What you have said here exactly backs my views of managerial stability.

IMO this Berigistain chap is going to be the main guy at the club regardless of who the manager is. He is the guy who will give us a football identity and a good structure of football. Also I am sure I read that he has a massive input into transfers and who we will sign. Therefore I believe that what ever manager we have will be working hand in hand with this guy.

I also think Mancini is now to the club what Mark Hughes was when the owners first come in. There is obviously going to be massive changes to the club and Mancini was not the Spanish guys choice of manager, just like Hughes was not the owners choice of manager. The fact Bobby won the league is giving him extra time in the job, however eventually he will eventually have to do it the Spanish guys way or he will be out of a job.

There is a lot of speculation about us wanting Pep as our next manager and its not hard to see why. However when managing Barca or the way we are going the managers main attributes will be motivating the players, having the respect of the players and handling the media. Which is why Vieria could be a good shout as our next manager.

I know I have left tactics out of the managers attributes but this is because we have played the same system for the past two years and the only reason we are worse off this year is because we have players who are badly out of form. Perhaps this is because they are not properly motivated who knows but I honestly don't think Mancini's tactics are that bad. The reason for this is the fact that when we play teams who defend with 10 men behind the ball it is important to score the first goal and take the key chances. This season Aguero, Tevez and Silva have all been guilty of missing game changing opportunities against the likes of Reading, Everton, Stoke and Sunderland. And if them chances were taken then the outcome would have been a lot different.

This is the reason I think people slating Bobby's tactics are wide of the mark. They should be asking questions of why players are out of form instead of questioning his tactics.

So back to the original point we need a manager who is going to follow Berigistain's plan for the club now and not later. Even if we are not successful at first as long as everyone is going in the same direction success will follow. This is why whatever manager we bring in after that will have to manage the City way or he won't get the job. This is why I don't buy the fact that a new manger will demand a new squad because Txixi will choose a manager who will only tweak the squad.

 

[thedogsbollocks]

Mancini keeps going back to Italy a lot more than he used could he be lining his next job their for next season.

He has always gone straight back to Italy after most Saturday games if we have no game midweek.Thats why Platt has sometimes given after match interviews on a Saturday.

Now we have no midweek games he will definitely spend more time in Italy,so it will appear he spends more time there.If we were in the Europa he would be in England.He has always commuted for the 3 years he has been with us.

 

[SuperYaya]

I'm holding on to the hope that now most pundits and some fans have written us off this season, we may go on a decent run - just as we did after the Arsenal game last year when the pressure was lifted off us.

Hopefully.

We're still in the FA Cup too, would be very happy with another one of those.

 

[Rammy Blue]

I'm sure the board will be heading down to the bookies as we speak

Not a bad idea, might be a decent way round FFP if we stick 100mil on at 5/1 before giving him the bullet.

Maybe PB can shed some light on whether this would be acceptable in the calculations....

;-)

 

[Bill]

I'm holding on to the hope that now most pundits and some fans have written us off this season, we may go on a decent run - just as we did after the Arsenal game last year when the pressure was lifted off us.

Hopefully.

We're still in the FA Cup too, would be very happy with another one of those.

i'd snatch your hand off now for that and a top 4.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

IF it becomes 9/10 point gap on Saturday then I reckon it would result in the trigger being pulled. It's always going to be easier to make the decision at a low point as there ends up being far less fallout with the media, if we waited until the end of the season and managed to claw it back to say 3/4 points then we'd get murders for sacking Bob at that point.

Our next three games are Norwich (A), Stoke (H) and Arsenal (A). The rags have West Brom (H), Wigan (A) and Liverpool (H).

On current form we might only get 2 or 3 points. If we do and the rags get 6 or 7 then it's a double figure gap and I would say that's it for the title. Or we could get 6 or 7 and they could get 2 or 3. Then it's game on.

I'd be delighted if we'd keep this gap in that period and over the moon if we would cut 1 or 2 points.

A big moment of the season for you will surely be when the Toures go to the ACON.

Looking at the fixtures you, United & Chelsea have during that time...

City
Arsenal (A)
Fulham (H)
QPR (A)
Liverpool (H)
Southampton (A)

United
Liverpool (H)
Tottenham (A)
Southampton (H)
Fulham (A)
Everton (H)

Chelsea
Stoke (A)
Arsenal (H)
Reading (A)
Newcastle (A)
Wigan (H)

...I’d say that you actually have the easier set of games. QPR & Southampton are both relegation fodder and both are teams in which I don’t think are capable of pulling off a ‘park-the-bus’ gameplan. With Fulham being shit on their travels, I’d find it hard for you not to get 9pts out of these 3 games. Liverpool aren’t pulling up trees this season by stretch of the imagination and they don’t exactly have the most explosive midfield around so I don’t see that game causing too much trouble. It’s only the Arsenal game where I think you’ll come away with nothing.

United have a tricky run during this period. I can see Spurs doing them over at WHL and Everton can certainly pick up a point at least at OT. If Chelsea can come away from Stoke with 3pts, I actually think they can go on to have a good run here and probably picking up the most points out of the top 3.

What I’m trying to say is, that if you can keep the gap to what it is now (I can’t see United not getting 6 from WBA & Wigan), then the ACON wont provide such a big ‘obstruction’ as initially feared. Plus, Yaya hasn’t exactly been destroying opposition defences this season has he?