Is now the time to consider Mancini's tenure at the club

[mancityvstoke]

I think 3 European campaign with no significant improvement whatsoever isn't a low standard of proof for a club interested in being one of the preeminent footballing clubs in the world.

I don't think our results in Europe are proof that he can't take the club forward. And our results in the league this season certainly aren't proof either.

If you don't think three underachieving campaigns in Europe are proof of anything that's your business. The arguments for why Europe will be incredibly important for the club both financially as well as from a footballing point of view have been written many times. What matters is what the owners think. As you so glibly pointed out recently, Mancini's been sacked many times by some of us. Maybe this time we'll be right. Well, here's hoping anyway ...

Only time I've agreed with you I think.

 

[jonmcity]

Kill this thread please, being kept going by all those who want to see us fail. We will be Champions again.

 

[moomba]

I think 3 European campaign with no significant improvement whatsoever isn't a low standard of proof for a club interested in being one of the preeminent footballing clubs in the world.

I don't think our results in Europe are proof that he can't take the club forward. And our results in the league this season certainly aren't proof either.

If you don't think three underachieving campaigns in Europe are proof of anything that's your business. The arguments for why Europe will be incredibly important for the club both financially as well as from a footballing point of view have been written many times. What matters is what the owners think. As you so glibly pointed out recently, Mancini's been sacked many times by some of us. Maybe this time we'll be right. Well, here's hoping anyway ...

No-one is saying that we should ignore European results. But we didn't get progress as far as we would have liked in Europe two years ago, and still progressed as a club. We didn't progress as far in Europe as we would have liked to last year and still progressed as a club. So it comes down to this year, and there is nothing that has happened this year that has proven that Mancini is incapable of progressing us as a club further.

We're not going to ignore Europe but it is only one factor that goes towards progression as a club. FWIW I think failure in Europe next season will be the end of Mancini regardless of results in the league.

 

[Anonymous]

No-one is saying that we should ignore European results. But we didn't get progress as far as we would have liked in Europe two years ago, and still progressed as a club. We didn't progress as far in Europe as we would have liked to last year and still progressed as a club. So it comes down to this year, and there is nothing that has happened this year that has proven that Mancini is incapable of progressing us as a club further.

We're not going to ignore Europe but it is only one factor that goes towards progression as a club. FWIW I think failure in Europe next season will be the end of Mancini regardless of results in the league.

Progress as a club is down to the investment the owners have made in the team since they came in. Two seasons ago we finished joint 2nd some 9 points off United. We then went out and spent close to 100 million on players that summer, which was certainly a major factor in the progress we made last season. This summer the investment was minimal compared to previous seasons (when you factor in transfer fees + wages) and many people believe this has stalled progress on the field.

I'm interested in seeing us progress as a footballing side without having to spend that type of money each summer, and that is a challenge Mancini isn't up to in my book (along with the challenge of European football, and the challenge of getting the very best out of his squad collectively).

 

[moomba]

and that is a challenge Mancini isn't up to in my book (along with the challenge of European football, and the challenge of getting the very best out of his squad collectively).

There is a difference between that, and proof that he can't do it.

And if we're not going to give a manager credit for the progress of a club because we've spent money then no manager would have been seen as a success over the past three years.

We also shouldn't be giving Mourinho any credit for Chelsea's successes, Inter's success (I'll give them the champions league) or Madrids success last season.

 

[Anonymous]

There is a difference between that, and proof that he can't do it.

I'd rather not wait around until we're a European laughing stock before considering finding a manager who has the wherewithal to take up the challenge of fight on two fronts (Europe and the league).

And if we're not going to give a manager credit for the progress of a club because we've spent money then no manager would have been seen as a success over the past three years.

We also shouldn't be giving Mourinho any credit for Chelsea's successes, Inter's success (I'll give them the champions league) or Madrids success last season.

I didn't say that the manager deserves no credit - that's an incredibly lazy argument. I said that our progress was down for the most part to the investment made by the owners. Unless you're arguing that Mancini could've taken the squad from two summers ago, not added Aguero etc., and still won the league last season.

 

[moomba]

I'd rather not wait around until we're a European laughing stock before considering finding a manager who has the wherewithal to take up the challenge of fight on two fronts (Europe and the league).

That's fine for you. All I'm saying is that there is no proof that we can't progress as a club under Mancini. You might have an opinion that we can't, but an opinion isn't proof.

I didn't say that the manager deserves no credit - that's an incredibly lazy argument. I said that our progress was down for the most part to the investment made by the owners. Unless you're arguing that Mancini could've taken the squad from two summers ago, not added Aguero etc., and still won the league last season.

I'm arguing that no manager would win a league without improving their squad. By and large that is done with money, so if you are going to downplay an achievement because money has been spent you should be doing it to all managers that have bought players.

I also wonder which manager would have taken our squad from two summers ago, not spent any money and won the title. At a guess, I'd say none of them.

 

[GStar]

I think 3 European campaign with no significant improvement whatsoever isn't a low standard of proof for a club interested in being one of the preeminent footballing clubs in the world.

I don't think our results in Europe are proof that he can't take the club forward. And our results in the league this season certainly aren't proof either.

If you don't think three underachieving campaigns in Europe are proof of anything that's your business. The arguments for why Europe will be incredibly important for the club both financially as well as from a footballing point of view have been written many times. What matters is what the owners think. As you so glibly pointed out recently, Mancini's been sacked many times by some of us. Maybe this time we'll be right. Well, here's hoping anyway ...

That's not what he said... too many people trying to put words in other posters mouths to suit their own opinions.

Your last line is a bit of a disgrace, you lot 'sacking Mancini' have been shown up for two years now. Equally if you want to point to Europe and fail to acknowledge the anomalies of the groups we've been unfortunate to be drawn into, as a counter balance to our below par/poor performances... then you might want to re-address your opinions. Because it's quite apparent that those thinking along those lines have let their agenda get in the way of their common sense.

 

[smeeagain]

Kill this thread please, being kept going by all those who want to see us fail. We will be Champions again.

just because some fans disagree with mancinis tactics/decisions please successfully explain why this means they want the team to fail ??

 

[Anonymous]

Your last line is a bit of a disgrace, you lot 'sacking Mancini' have been shown up for two years now.

You know me well enough to know it matters not one jot how many times I get called a disgrace or have my City credentials questioned on the forum.

Equally if you want to point to Europe and fail to acknowledge the anomalies of the groups we've been unfortunate to be drawn into, as a counter balance to our below par/poor performances... then you might want to re-address your opinions. Because it's quite apparent that those thinking along those lines have let their agenda get in the way of their common sense.

The arguments about our tough groups have been done to death. But if you want to go down that road we can do. We were beaten by inferior teams in Ajax and Napoli which ultimately cost us in the CL. We were beaten by inferior teams in Kiev and Lisbon which ultimately cost us in the Europa League. The hardening of my stance on Mancini has come from seeing him be tactically outwitted by the likes of Frank De Boer. We embarrassed ourselves in Amsterdam in a game which was absolutely crucial to our hopes.

With respect, don't lecture me about agendas. I've got none, except wanting what's best for City. I don't think Mancini is the best manager for the job. He's as destructive as he is constructive both as a coach with his players, and as a manager dealing with everyone else at the club.