Israel-Palestine Conflict

[robbieh]

It does bother me, but Hamas are intent on genocide of the WHOLE Jewish population of Palestine.
I find it incredible that people can't see that, I really do.

How many times do you have to be told that even if you don't believe their latest document, they are completely ill equipped to achieve the eradication of Jews in Israel.
As we can see there is only one side who possess overwhelming force.

 

[St.Pauli support]

The bold part was implied rather than stated. Like everyone who drones on about Hamas while at the same time denying that Israel has any responsibility for the mess it finds itself in.
I agree with you re the guilt part. Obviously modern day Germans bear no responsibility for what happened and I should have been clearer.

Generally speaking I found the guy way more articulate and nuanced than the stuff being peddled by the leadership of other western countries.

I mainly agree, but I'm sure Mr Habeck - like most non-Muslim Germans - does very well see Israel's responsibility for the development over the last decades esp. by the aggressive West Bank settling policy. That topic is being addressed only on diplomatic level to Israel very directly (like US or UK surely do), but not in the public (maybe doing it that way was always being wrong and still is).

The video was mainly addressed to people in Germany to paint the red lines what behavior is acceptable and what is not. And yes, the clarification was bitterly needed. Same elsewhere.

Actually what we really need is a mass demonstration with moderate people from BOTH sides to show we are the vast majority who since decades have understood that every human has a right for a life in peace, security and dignity. That war doesn't solve anything and only wastes resources and lives. That times of imperialism and colonialism should have been overcome and nations can live together in peaceful coexistence even if they believe in a different God (whatever that might be..). It really isn't that difficult.

 

[robbieh]

I mainly agree, but I'm sure Mr Habeck - like most non-Muslim Germans - does very well see Israel's responsibility for the development over the last decades esp. by the aggressive West Bank settling policy. That topic is being addressed only on diplomatic level to Israel very directly (like US or UK surely do), but not in the public (maybe doing it that way was always being wrong and still is).

The video was mainly addressed to people in Germany to paint the red lines what behavior is acceptable and what is not. And yes, the clarification was bitterly needed. Same elsewhere.

Actually what we really need is a mass demonstration with moderate people from BOTH sides to show we are the vast majority who since decades have understood that every human has a right for a life in peace, security and dignity. That war doesn't solve anything and only wastes resources and lives. That times of imperialism and colonialism should have been overcome and nations can live together in peaceful coexistence even if they believe in a different God (whatever that might be..). It really isn't that difficult.

Very well put. I still hold out hope that this massive escalation in the conflict will finally bring people to their senses both in the area as well as the wider world.
Once upon a time it seemed Northern Ireland and South Africa were intractable problems.
South Africa now has blacks and whites representing them at cricket and rugby with great success.
Is it too much to hope for something similar in Israel/Palestine?

 

[Bluemoon_420]

When you say zionist, do you mean all 16 million jews on the planet (because for many, zionist is codeword for jew) or just the estimated 10 million+ jews who identify as zionist ?

Did you even think for one minute how offensive your post is to jews ?

Do you know what zionism is ?

I suggest you look it up

There is of course no one single definition of zionism, but these seem to be the commonly accepted ones

The Oxford Living Dictionaries says Zionists believe in “the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel”. The Board of Deputies of British Jews describes Zionism as “the national liberation movement of the Jewish people.” The non-Zionist left-wing Jewish group Jewdas have defined it simply as “the belief that there should be a Jewish state in Israel”.

So according to you, in your words, the underlying fact is people who believe in the above are following a racist and supremacist ideology

And what about the people in the Middle East who are opposed to zionism, i.e. opposed to the existence of any jewish state. Are they non-racist and non-supremacist ? You know, the people whose life mission is to destroy all jews.

I’ve made clear distinctions between Jews and Zionists previously, maybe not clear enough for you and not that I should keep having to repeating myself but I would be the first person to defend a Jew from anti-Semitic hate and have done on more than one occasion in the past and will continue to do so.

That doesn’t take away the fact that zionism is in mine and many millions opinion that it is a racist and settler colonial movement, which has opportunistically coopted aspects of Judaism in its attempt to justify its criminal practices of apartheid and genocide of indigenous Palestinians.

Zionism embraces aggression and expansion as an acceptable response to trauma and denounces the traditional Jewish pacifist approach of viewing hardship as divine punishment for sins.

The Israeli regime capitalises on a dynamic of violence and inequality reinforced by fear-mongering and the rewards of resource acquisition to promote a privileged ruling class at the expense of colonised Palestinian people.

Zionist strategists manipulate the past traumas Jews have endured to galvanise support for aggressive policies that disenfranchise Palestinians.

I could go on, but your definition isn’t as black and white as you would make it appear.

 

[halfcenturyup]

It does bother me, but Hamas are intent on genocide of the WHOLE Jewish population of Palestine.
I find it incredible that people can't see that, I really do.

Did you actually mean the Jewish population of Palestine?

 

[west didsblue]

I’ve made clear distinctions between Jews and Zionists previously, maybe not clear enough for you and not that I should keep having to repeating myself but I would be the first person to defend a Jew from anti-Semitic hate and have done on more than one occasion in the past and will continue to do so.

That doesn’t take away the fact that zionism is in mine and many millions opinion that it is a racist and settler colonial movement, which has opportunistically coopted aspects of Judaism in its attempt to justify its criminal practices of apartheid and genocide of indigenous Palestinians.

Zionism embraces aggression and expansion as an acceptable response to trauma and denounces the traditional Jewish pacifist approach of viewing hardship as divine punishment for sins.

The Israeli regime capitalises on a dynamic of violence and inequality reinforced by fear-mongering and the rewards of resource acquisition to promote a privileged ruling class at the expense of colonised Palestinian people.

Zionist strategists manipulate the past traumas Jews have endured to galvanise support for aggressive policies that disenfranchise Palestinians.

I could go on, but your definition isn’t as black and white as you would make it appear.

I’m afraid it’s your definition of Zionism is the one that’s open to question. Your definition covers the right wing religious settler fringe of Zionism not the generally understood definition that covers the majority.

 

[kaz7]

It does bother me, but Hamas are intent on genocide of the WHOLE Jewish population of Palestine.
I find it incredible that people can't see that, I really do.

?

 

[Dax777]

"Mission accomplished" in a month, and then a gradual recognition that nothing has changed for the better at all?

We don't know what will come of this. We'll find out though.

The present condition seemed intolerable to the Israelis. So they are attempting to change it. They may or may not succeed. Time will tell.

Like I've held from the start, I think a Hamas free Palestine is a positive for Palestinians and Isrealis alike. Granted, so is probably a Likud free Israel. But one has to be forcefully uprooted. The other can be voted out and likely will be.

There's even a conspiracy that the 10/7 attacks war might have been purposely allowed by the Loud so they could have an excuse to go to war and hold on to power. It's a horrific thought. But not one I'd put past politicians :(

No matter what happens though, Not on yahoo should be done after this.

 

[Dax777]

With Blinkin over there fighting fires that he and his boss helped start, we may see a humanitarian pause, they have certainly telegraphed it

All eyes on Nasrallahs Friday sermon, I suspect increasing American jitters about the huge amount of civilian casualties and this speech are certainly worrying the White House, also the amount of pressure they are under from allies around the world some of them are strategic allies as well

The Americans have not come across well, it’s actually been a diplomatic disaster for them, so they really need to pull a number of rabbits out of the hat

What they could do immediately is

Make further aid conditional on stopping the violence and land grabs on the West Bank

Make firm plans for a regional peace conference with all major powers including China

Shit like this happens when you have dunces for leaders

 

[blue5ter]

I’ve made clear distinctions between Jews and Zionists previously, maybe not clear enough for you and not that I should keep having to repeating myself but I would be the first person to defend a Jew from anti-Semitic hate and have done on more than one occasion in the past and will continue to do so.

That doesn’t take away the fact that zionism is in mine and many millions opinion that it is a racist and settler colonial movement, which has opportunistically coopted aspects of Judaism in its attempt to justify its criminal practices of apartheid and genocide of indigenous Palestinians.

Zionism embraces aggression and expansion as an acceptable response to trauma and denounces the traditional Jewish pacifist approach of viewing hardship as divine punishment for sins.

The Israeli regime capitalises on a dynamic of violence and inequality reinforced by fear-mongering and the rewards of resource acquisition to promote a privileged ruling class at the expense of colonised Palestinian people.

Zionist strategists manipulate the past traumas Jews have endured to galvanise support for aggressive policies that disenfranchise Palestinians.

I could go on, but your definition isn’t as black and white as you would make it appear.

All you're doing is s

I’m afraid it’s your definition of Zionism is the one that’s open to question. Your definition covers the right wing religious settler fringe of Zionism not the generally understood definition that covers the majority.

Indeed. I gave a variety of definitions of zionism that have relevance and asked which group the poster was referring to. The reply is pretty telling. Unfortunately not shocking.

There are some people who take a blanket approach to Israel's right to exist as being racist and colonial. They aren't very nice people to associate one's self with. Just as the most extremes within in any group aren't