Israel-Palestine Conflict

jacko74 said:
It's remarkable how Israeli intelligence is able to locate, target and take out Hamas locations and even specific individuals throughout Gaza, yet those same Israeli intelligence services supposedly had absolutely no idea that a 3000 strong force of Hamas fighters were going to invade Israel.
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You could argue the same with 9/11, London Bombings, Madrid, Paris…

Intelligence isn’t some fool proof guarantee terrorists won’t ever succeed. It does however stop a vast majority thank fuck.
 
blueinsa said:
You could argue the same with 9/11, London Bombings, Madrid, Paris…

Intelligence isn’t some fool proof guarantee terrorists won’t ever succeed. It does however stop a vast majority thank fuck.
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True, and communication technology is responsible for most of the success in countering it, the only fool proof way of secretly communicating is the old Number Stations but fortunately having a high power transmitter would rather give the game away
 
blueinsa said:
You could argue the same with 9/11, London Bombings, Madrid, Paris…

Intelligence isn’t some fool proof guarantee terrorists won’t ever succeed. It does however stop a vast majority thank fuck.
Click to expand...
Not really comparable at all in my opinion.

It's widely accepted that Israeli intelligence already had very comprehensively infiltrated Hamas, it seems inconceivable that they were completely unaware of plans for what was effectively a full scale military invasion, not just some small scale attack carried out by a few individuals.

When I say "small scale" I'm referring to the number of individuals involved in the planning and implementation of those attacks, not the number of victims that resulted from them.
 

blueinsa said:
You could argue the same with 9/11, London Bombings, Madrid, Paris…

Intelligence isn’t some fool proof guarantee terrorists won’t ever succeed. It does however stop a vast majority thank fuck.
Click to expand...
That is true, of course, in a normally peaceful environment. But Gaza/Israel isn't a normal environment. Gaza is, what, 300 square miles of what must be one of the most comprehensively monitored territories in the world? With a mile-wide no go area and another mile-wide exclusion zone around the whole perimeter. Palestinians have been shot for throwing stones in those areas. A Palestinian girl was shot dead while playing on the beach, no?

You must forgive people for finding it almost unbelievable that 3,000 Hamas fighters could drive up to the border, with a bulldozer, no less, and presumably hundreds of pick-ups, undetected. Add in the warnings from Egypt. Yet, this is what happened.

You would imagine there will be a completely independent public enquiry into what happened after all this is over. The Americans, I am pretty sure, would demand one and I am also pretty sure the conclusion won't be "intelligence isn't some foolproof guarantee terrorists won't ever succeed".
 
Ducado said:
I know I am talking into the void here however here goes, we all see the world differently we live in our own world and whatever position you take your mind will try and prove it, as Robert Anton Wilson said in the great book Prometheus Rising, “What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves.” in your own little world you are right and your prover will work flat out to prove it

But what is you took more nuanced view? What if you could really see it from both sides?
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Too many are entrenched in their views to look at things from a different perspective.
 
halfcenturyup said:
That is true, of course, in a normally peaceful environment. But Gaza/Israel isn't a normal environment. Gaza is, what, 300 square miles of what must be one of the most comprehensively monitored territories in the world? With a mile-wide no go area and another mile-wide exclusion zone around the whole perimeter. Palestinians have been shot for throwing stones in those areas. A Palestinian girl was shot dead while playing on the beach, no?

You must forgive people for finding it almost unbelievable that 3,000 Hamas fighters could drive up to the border, with a bulldozer, no less, and presumably hundreds of pick-ups, undetected. Add in the warnings from Egypt. Yet, this is what happened.

You would imagine there will be a completely independent public enquiry into what happened after all this is over. The Americans, I am pretty sure, would demand one and I am also pretty sure the conclusion won't be "intelligence isn't some foolproof guarantee terrorists won't ever succeed".
Click to expand...
You've already answered your own question. Hamas previously attacked from afar with rockets and anything else near the border fence usually amounted to Palestinians throwing rocks. Gaza is not peaceful but why would the Israeli's be worried? There is a complacency there that nothing really bad is going to happen because it hasn't happened before.

It is definitely possible that Israeli intelligence didn't know the details of the attack in terms of the day, method and timing. If you don't know any or all of these and your attackers plan an attack early morning on a quiet holy day.... How is it possible that you could repel a sudden attack of a 3000 strong army, some of whom have literally flown over the border fence into Israel?

As has already been posted there are countless examples of such intelligence failures in history. The biggest questions of Israeli intelligence and the armed forces will be asked on complacency and not conspiracy.
 
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