Israel.

[dom]

So which bit of Sinai and Gaza didn't they hand back?

Come on PB, Israel still occupies large parts of the Gaza strip.

East Jerusalem? Golan Heights?

To suggest as you are doing that Israel does not still occupy lands, illegally taken and recognised as such by UN resolutions is ridiculous.

PB seems to have dodged answering this one .....!!

 

[blueinsa]

Come on PB, Israel still occupies large parts of the Gaza strip.

East Jerusalem? Golan Heights?

To suggest as you are doing that Israel does not still occupy lands, illegally taken and recognised as such by UN resolutions is ridiculous.

PB seems to have dodged answering this one .....!!

It would appear so.

 

[buzzer1]

it is a poisoned chalice on here. Israel you seem to be implying is used on here as a cover to what people actually mean to be Jews, but say Israel so as to not get themselves into trouble?

I, for one, do not defend what the Catholic Church has done(though it's collusion with the Nazi party is debatable as The Nazis actively destroyed the CC in Germany and The Pope was publically against their actions), however a question does strike me. As many European Jews had to go to Israel instead of integrate back into Europe, it begs a question why do they need their own state which they didn't have in the first place?

It is quite possible to criticise Israel without being anti-semitic. Most that do almost certainly aren't. But that fails to recognise that some people use anti-Israeli sentiment as a cloak for anti-semitism as well as the fact that racism generally (and anti-semitism in particular) is deeply ingrained into British culture, particularly the ruling classes. Neville Chamberlain was anti-semitic. Macmillan made his famous remark about Thatcher's cabinet being more Old Estonian than Old Etonian. Someone described him as being anti-semitic without ever really knowing why.

As to your second point about why the Jews couldn't re-integrate into Europe, it depends on where you came from. Many Western Eurpoean Jews did go back to places like France, Holland & Belgium. But those in Eastern Europe still faced persecution and prejudice, with many being killed in Poland even after the war ended. So how could they integrate?

Plus, a large part of Israel's population soon after independence came from the Middle East and North Africa, when they were forcibly expelled from countires they'd lived in happily for centuries.

Well i aint one of em pal.<br /><br />-- Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:51 pm --<br /><br />

it is a poisoned chalice on here. Israel you seem to be implying is used on here as a cover to what people actually mean to be Jews, but say Israel so as to not get themselves into trouble?

I, for one, do not defend what the Catholic Church has done(though it's collusion with the Nazi party is debatable as The Nazis actively destroyed the CC in Germany and The Pope was publically against their actions), however a question does strike me. As many European Jews had to go to Israel instead of integrate back into Europe, it begs a question why do they need their own state which they didn't have in the first place?

It is quite possible to criticise Israel without being anti-semitic. Most that do almost certainly aren't. But that fails to recognise that some people use anti-Israeli sentiment as a cloak for anti-semitism as well as the fact that racism generally (and anti-semitism in particular) is deeply ingrained into British culture, particularly the ruling classes. Neville Chamberlain was anti-semitic. Macmillan made his famous remark about Thatcher's cabinet being more Old Estonian than Old Etonian. Someone described him as being anti-semitic without ever really knowing why.

As to your second point about why the Jews couldn't re-integrate into Europe, it depends on where you came from. Many Western Eurpoean Jews did go back to places like France, Holland & Belgium. But those in Eastern Europe still faced persecution and prejudice, with many being killed in Poland even after the war ended. So how could they integrate?

Plus, a large part of Israel's population soon after independence came from the Middle East and North Africa, when they were forcibly expelled from countires they'd lived in happily for centuries.

Well i aint one of em pal.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

it just confuses me as to why so many people seemingly dislike the Jews in modern history. The Nazis, Soviets, Arabs(to some extent), islamists(to some extent), it doesn't add up unless somewhere there's been a massive provocation.

I must have missed something.

What a filthy, snide little remark. "The Jews have brought their problems on their own headsCome on PB, Israel still occupies large parts of the Gaza strip.

East Jerusalem? Golan Heights?

To suggest as you are doing that Israel does not still occupy lands, illegally taken and recognised as such by UN resolutions is ridiculous." was a well-worn Nazi refrain.

I didn't suggest that there weren't still occupied territories and know full well there are. The post suggested that Israel hadn't given up anything.

 

[blueinsa]

it just confuses me as to why so many people seemingly dislike the Jews in modern history. The Nazis, Soviets, Arabs(to some extent), islamists(to some extent), it doesn't add up unless somewhere there's been a massive provocation.

I must have missed something.

What a filthy, snide little remark. "The Jews have brought their problems on their own headsCome on PB, Israel still occupies large parts of the Gaza strip.

East Jerusalem? Golan Heights?

To suggest as you are doing that Israel does not still occupy lands, illegally taken and recognised as such by UN resolutions is ridiculous." was a well-worn Nazi refrain.

I didn't suggest that there weren't still occupied territories and know full well there are. The post suggested that Israel hadn't given up anything.

Fair enough PB. We disagree but i respect your passion mate. I will leave this now but want to assure all that i have no issue with Judaism, just the way that Israel goes about its business.

Peace.

 

[buzzer1]

What a filthy, snide little remark. "The Jews have brought their problems on their own headsCome on PB, Israel still occupies large parts of the Gaza strip.


I didn't suggest that there weren't still occupied territories and know full well there are. The post suggested that Israel hadn't given up anything.

Fair enough PB. We disagree but i respect your passion mate. I will leave this now but want to assure all that i have no issue with Judaism, just the way that Israel goes about its business.

Peace.

^^This, it is all about opinions at the end of the day and Mr. PB, i am sure what Blueinsa says speaks for all who have posted in this thread, there is no secret agenda against Jews, Christians, Muslims or anyother and is totally wrong to simply stigmatise people with such allegations which are put forward only on Assumption. Anyway, Mancini in, i think. :/

 

[GStar]

After reading all 12 pages i've come to the conclusion that...

...Prestwich should be a politician, if he isn't already. The dodging of retorts and finger pointing at others would be welcomed by any major party.

Thankfully i'm not clued up on this enough to get involved on the actual topic. So this post is completely useless.

 

[tommyhair]

I thought you made a good point, untill you said Global Warming is a myth. Then I thought, oh he's just off his head! lost credability

 

[buzzer1]

I thought you made a good point, untill you said Global Warming is a myth. Then I thought, oh he's just off his head! lost credability

Tommy, if that was aimed at me then fair enough, i already stated to lloydie that it was a wrong choice of wording, i aint backtracking but i did state this before and i will say again, in my opinion the Global Warming situation is for real, but the way they try and Tax us(as just an example) and lever our hard earned away from us is a crime in itself, and we won't go into the Hypocrasy of our glorious leaders with their constant bullshitting and squirming around when the potato is chucked back at them ie fkin' Two Jags John' and Mr. Push Bike (not) Rider Cameron, a crock of the finest leeches that has ever been.<br /><br />-- Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:04 pm --<br /><br />

After reading all 12 pages i've come to the conclusion that...

...Prestwich should be a politician, if he isn't already. The dodging of retorts and finger pointing at others would be welcomed by any major party.

Thankfully i'm not clued up on this enough to get involved on the actual topic. So this post is completely useless.

Yeah Gee, but the real scary thing is that no matter how much you shout and scream at people to make them see that you are not Anti anything at all, they are steadfast in their Assumption of a person, it happens right through society and i'm afraid is part of the problem with the way our day to day lives have been shaped, i understand the need for Racism/Bullying etc to be stamped upon but only when it is needed and i'm glad to say, it's not all the time, we are not all nutters, only sometimes anyway. :0

 

[irishblue59]

when u kill innocent protestors at a civil rights march like Britain did during the 70s